Well looks more and more like both sides want to litigate over negotiate

[Rob0729]

This time it looks like the players are being the unreasonable ones, but the owners may end up being more unreasonable if they lose the lockout case:

The players are believed to have increased their number to $159 million per team, characterizing the March 11 figure as a discount aimed at getting a deal done. We’re told that the league believes the move is aimed at allowing the players to continue to pursue their litigation strategy, in the hopes of gaining even more leverage.

Another problem arises from the reality that the total revenue pie for 2011 has begun to shrink, which would make it even harder to hit the $141 million per team the league offered in March. As a result, the normal incentive that would be created by the uncertainty of litigation simply doesn’t apply here, with each side opting to push for the ultimate leverage of a win in court in lieu of trying to work out a deal that works for each party.

That’s possibly why the league won’t take the option of shutting down all business operations off the table. If the appeals court concludes that the lockout should be lifted, the NFL will be backed into a corner, forced to allow the players to return to work and get paid while they pursue even more leverage by attacking any rules that the NFL imposes regarding free agency and the draft. From the perspective of the owners, it may be better to simply close the doors until the players finally cry, “Uncle.”

As mediation approaches, gap between NFL, players possibly has grown | ProFootballTalk

Granted Chris Mortensen reports that the owners will never choose to exercise the league shutdown option:

“As prominent NFL man says, please ignore concept being floated that NFL could shut down business if lockout lifted,” Mortensen writes on Twitter. “Not a chance, he says.” Mortensen later dismissed Goodell’s failure to take the option off the table by saying without elaboration, “I wouldn’t use it as a barometer of what’s real here.”

Mort: League privately says there won’t be a total shutdown | ProFootballTalk

If the revenue pie is truly shrinking, the players are unreasonable to increase their demands by $8 million per team. If they are doing what the league suspects and asking for extra money to force more litigation to gain more leverage, they are no better than the owners in their greed.

If the owners lose the lockout and then shutdown the NFL, they are just spoiled brats. Stupid spoiled brats at that. Not only will they have the fans turn against them in this conflict (most polls still have them having the fan advantage), but they risk blowing up the goose that lays the golden eggs just like the players will do if they push these antitrust cases too far.

 

[part-timer]

Isn't the NFL's shut down of all operations the same as the NFLPA's shut down of Union operations? It's the exact same thing. The NFLPA shut down the union to avoid the lock out option and start the antitrust litigation. If the NFL exercises the Shutdown option it will be to avoid further anitrust allegatins.If the lock out is lifted, no matter how the NFL operates they will be left open to antitrust charges form anyone. The NFLPA exercised their nuclear option six weeks ago and the NFL has opted to try to resolve this before exercising their nuclear option. If the lock out is lifted the NFL may be forced to go that route. They have an obligation to defend themselves.

 

[DarrylS]

When you abdicate your responsibility to a third party, in this case the court, no one will come away completely happy. Someone else made us do this, instead of us doing it. This whole thing has turned into a pig circus.. wth a whole bunch of azz clowns.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

The NFLPA* will press its leverage so long as Nelson and Doty preside over their lawsuit and settlement talks. The owners better pray the 8th Circuit sides with them or they will be WORSE OFF than before the lockout.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Yup - I've given up trying to lambaste one side or the other. They both bear full responsibility at this stage.

What's happened in the past is near irrelevant - what matters now is bridging the gap to reach an agreement.

I'm just about ready to call on fans to join together to hire both scab owners and scab players and let the rest of them argue in court while we watch something resembling football.

 

[PATS4EVA]

i am done caring about who wins. They are both selfish and greedy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sounds like even Judge Doty is tiring of the litigants. He expressed frustration from the bench today that this case still even exists. Of course had he thought through the implications of giving DeMaurice and Kessler even the perception of leverage sufficient to persue the decertification strategy...

The Special Master awarded the players $6.9M in reparations for CBA violations relative to the TV deals. The players are apparently asking Doty for several HUNDRED million, plus punative damages. They may just make it worth the owners while to shut down...

I hear Kessler also reps the NBA players...

 

[Dufflebagz]

Idc, I just want football....

 

[Haley]

i am done caring about who wins. They are both selfish and greedy.

There is only ever one winner in these: the lawyers.

I just hope we don't end up with the NBAFL and that we get some football soon.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Other than that Demaurice Smith is a Lawyer, I don't see what the Players hope to win in any litigation. Do you ever think who will pay for every judgment the lawyers win against the owners? It certainly won't be the owners. Now De Maurice is looking for $707 million in penalties for the TV contract.

I would bet if they win and the owners had to pay such a judgement, then the CBA offer to the players will be lower by that $ 707 million, in addition to the lower amount that the owners are going to pay.

All this litigation is a side show. It solves and settles nothing, and only prevents the two sides from negotiating for a solution. A solution that involves the players getting a lowered compensation package.

The NHL owners canceled a season which my NHL player acquaintances said would never happen, just before the cancelled season. They too had public stadiums and contracts, and TV contracts, and player contracts in existence. Some fans say a season cancellation is impossible.

In reality the NHL owners did it. AFAIK, the NHL league picked up with the same players on the same teams a year later, with the players chastened, and earning less. Plus fan support way down for several years.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I hope the owners win. Shut it down for all I care.

The best case is the union and all league rules are gone. No draft, no limit on contracts, whatever. Everyone is on their own. If it all goes up in smoke, well, that's that. Teach these greedy players a hard, hard, lesson.

 

[signbabybrady]

Other than that Demaurice Smith is a Lawyer, I don't see what the Players hope to win in any litigation. Do you ever think who will pay for every judgment the lawyers win against the owners? It certainly won't be the owners. Now De Maurice is looking for $707 million in penalties for the TV contract.

I would bet if they win and the owners had to pay such a judgement, then the CBA offer to the players will be lower by that $ 707 million, in addition to the lower amount that the owners are going to pay.

All this litigation is a side show. It solves and settles nothing, and only prevents the two sides from negotiating for a solution. A solution that involves the players getting a lowered compensation package.

The NHL owners canceled a season which my NHL player acquaintances said would never happen, just before the cancelled season. They too had public stadiums and contracts, and TV contracts, and player contracts in existence. Some fans say a season cancellation is impossible.

In reality the NHL owners did it. AFAIK, the NHL league picked up with the same players on the same teams a year later, with the players chastened, and earning less. Plus fan support way down for several years.

You mean Hockey came back? I thought they closed the doors in 04.....Oh wow check it out hockey is back and get this the Bruins are in the Eastern Conference Finals I might have to watch.

 

[patfanken]

You mean Hockey came back? I thought they closed the doors in 04.....Oh wow check it out hockey is back and get this the Bruins are in the Eastern Conference Finals I might have to watch.

Yes Hockey is back. Its now more competitive and healthier than ever. Its also improving its fan base on a regular basis. The year long lock out was painful medicine, but medicine nevertheless. I would think that most think its in a much better place now than where it was before...even for the players, who still manage to make millions for playing a game.

 

[Triumph]

There is only ever one winner in these: the lawyers.

Bingo

I said the the exact same thing when it all began. Lawyers are paid by the hour.

 

[ausbacker]

Yup - I've given up trying to lambaste one side or the other. They both bear full responsibility at this stage.

What's happened in the past is near irrelevant - what matters now is bridging the gap to reach an agreement.

I'm just about ready to call on fans to join together to hire both scab owners and scab players and let the rest of them argue in court while we watch something resembling football.

This entire scenario is as entertaining as watching two fat kids fight over an ice-cream.

 

[mgteich]

The courts will issue their orders, and all will comply. However, there really isn't much pressure on anyone to settle until at least August 1st. August seems like the month for real negotiations.

The ones that will be really hurt are the free agents.

 

[DaBruinz]

The players asking for 3 times the $707 million is a laughable joke. Especially considering the following:

1) They don't get paid in the off-season other than bonuses, so the idea that they are being irreparably damaged holds no water since there is no guarantee that free agents would be signed or that they would be signed for X amount.
2) Not a single game has been missed. So the players have not missed any game checks.
3) They've yet to prove that they have attempted to bargain in good faith.
4) They broke the CBA by decertifying prior to it's end. Yes, it was only a few hours, but it was hours that they had agreed to previously.

From the reports regarding the TV Contracts, prior to the changes in 2009, the NFL could miss games due to lockout or stroke and not have to repay the television companies. After the changes, if the league missed any games, the money would have to be repaid. I'm not sure how that is is strong-arming the TV companies, but the players say it was.

The cap numbers for 2009 and 2010 fell right in line with what had been announced in 2006. There was 2008 money pushed into 2009 and 2009 money would have been pushed into 2010, had there been a cap.

With that being the case, how was there "money left on the table" with the TV companies ?

 

[DaBruinz]

Other than that Demaurice Smith is a Lawyer, I don't see what the Players hope to win in any litigation. Do you ever think who will pay for every judgment the lawyers win against the owners? It certainly won't be the owners. Now De Maurice is looking for $707 million in penalties for the TV contract.

I would bet if they win and the owners had to pay such a judgement, then the CBA offer to the players will be lower by that $ 707 million, in addition to the lower amount that the owners are going to pay.

All this litigation is a side show. It solves and settles nothing, and only prevents the two sides from negotiating for a solution. A solution that involves the players getting a lowered compensation package.

The NHL owners canceled a season which my NHL player acquaintances said would never happen, just before the cancelled season. They too had public stadiums and contracts, and TV contracts, and player contracts in existence. Some fans say a season cancellation is impossible.

In reality the NHL owners did it. AFAIK, the NHL league picked up with the same players on the same teams a year later, with the players chastened, and earning less. Plus fan support way down for several years.

Not only that, you had players who ran their mouths and drove people away. I used to be a huge fan of Hockey. Had NHL Center Ice and everything. After losing it for a year and several arrogant players saying things like "The fans don't pay our salaries" I stopped watching. This is the first year that I have really followed the Bruins since the NHL closed its doors for that year.

The players and Judge Doty have forgotten a major thing. The owners do NOT have to operate their businesses. They can not be forced to do so. Every owner can make the choice to shut down their football operations and the courts can't do anything.

And before we get any of the owner-haters spewing, just remember that it was these owners who have shelled out hundreds of millions of their own money to get the game where it is today. The players have benefitted from that. And the owners have benefitted from the players benefitting, but it was still the owners who had the initial outlays of money. Not the players.

The players only want things THEIR way. They have shown they don't want to compromise. The owners attempted some compromise in the offer that the players made public prior to the decertification, but the owners also tried to jack the players as well. But, it was just a new starting point. And, instead, the players ignored it, decertified prior to the end of the CBA and then filed their lawsuits.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

the mediation is a joke... nothing is getting settled there... i really thought by now these idiots would settle this... but im really starting to get concerned no football until oct at the earliest....

 

[MoLewisrocks]

the mediation is a joke... nothing is getting settled there... i really thought by now these idiots would settle this... but im really starting to get concerned no football until oct at the earliest....

It sucks...but if that's what it takes to get it done right and secure a sustainable CBA for the next couple of decades as opposed to ending up like MLB or the NBA, so be it. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. Too many people don't care about sustainability. They live for the moment. Like all the bankrupt former players who helped build the league that their own association pays hollow lip service to. For too many fans and players and former unions it's the what have you done for me lately league. Owners and hard core football fans are in it for the long haul.

Doty said yesterday that the courts don't like being asked to make decisions in business matter like this. Well DUH...:bricks:

You want them to - you know - negotiate their differences, throw the lawsuits and the sham decertification tactics out.