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Well, it's official.... ACLU is representing al-Qaeda

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by QuiGon, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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  2. Pujo

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    Good for them, makes me proud to be a member. As far as I know they're "suspects". By Qui Gon's "logic", if the FBI just took these people out back and shot them, instead of putting them on trial, and someone complained, they'd be un-American. He should move to Iran or Pakistan or some other country with a system of "summary judgement", in America we follow some due process.
  3. Harry Boy

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    Osama must get a laugh out of that one.

    If the Muslim Terrorists should win the war the ACLU lawyers will be the first in line to have their Heads Chopped Off, can any of you imagine Al Queda allowing an outfit the ACLU to exist in their "Bloody Horror World".

    Imagine an ACLU lawyer telling a Muslim Terrorist to let his wife ride in the front seat :singing:
  4. Real World

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    I'm not a fan of the ACLU, but I'm also not a supporter of Guantanamo, or what it represents. Holding people indefinately and without some form of due process doesn't sit well with me. I know it's not an easy situation for people on either side of the argument, as simply releasing someone you suspect of wanting to murder innocent people is unfathomable to some, while incarcerating an individual who very well could be innocent is unaccpetable to others. I lean more to the side of the French General in Last of the Mohicans. Anyone remember what he told Magua the night before the British vacated their Fort?
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is the kind of issue why I don't belong to the ACLU. While I respect the ACLU's consistency with all sorts of groups, including Fred Phelps, Al Qaeda, and American Nazis, the rights of those groups are extraordinarily low on my list or priorities. I also feel the same way about prisoner's rights. While I certainly believe that prisoners are entitled to basic human rights, there are just too many groups that are more important to me. That said, I'm glad the ACLU is a strong organization because by representing the rights of the least desirable, they protect all of our rights.
  6. patsfan13

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    It's called being a Prisoner of War. A number of the prisoners were captured /killed while returning to the GWOT trying to kill Americans.
  7. Real World

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    Would I be wrong to conclude by your words that you feel certain groups have, or deserve, more rights than others? I'm just asking.
  8. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I'm sorry, but the Bush administration disagrees with you. They've refused to grant POW status to those captured as part of the War on Terror, being that POW status would entitle them to Geneva Convention protections.
  9. Real World

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    I understand what they allegedly all are. My issue with it is that this is not a coventional war, and there is no country, organization, or tribunal that is requesting their release, or representive of their being. There is no Germany, no Japan, no Vietnam, etc... Obvioulsy there are a number of these jokers who were on the field in Iraq/Afghanistan/etc. that were guilty of terrorism, or aggression against our country. My position is that these individual deserve some form of due process. Obvioulsy not the rights that American citizens enjoy in this country, but some for of predetermined process that enables them the ability to defend themselves against permanent incarceration against their will. I personally don't give a rats azz what the world thinks of Gunatanamo, as I don't care what the world thinks, I care about what is right for, and is, American. Which is why indiscriminate, permanent, and unlitigated incarceration is something I can't support. That is not good judgement, nor American. IMO.
  10. Real World

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    Which I don't think these jokers deserve. They don't play by the Geneva rules in any way, shape or form. They do deserve some form of due process though.
  11. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I can say with absolute conviction that those dedication to the destruction and/or overthrowing of the United States government and United States Constitution should have absolutely no rights under that document.

    A murderer should have rights under the law. Members of al-Qaeda should not.
  12. Real World

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  13. Real World

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    I absolutely agree. I just also feel that we should be able to pick any person that we don't like up, toss them in a cage, and hold them captive till they die.
  14. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Agreed. POW status is for uniformed soldiers, not terrorists. Also, keep in mind that this isn't a constitutional claim, this is a claim under the Alien Tort Act. That means there's a law in place that allows aliens to sue for torture.
  15. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Did you mean that you don't feel we should be able to...?
  16. Real World

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    Doh! :eek: Thanks for pointing that out Puj, I absolutely mean we should NOT be able too indiscriminately pick people up and lock them up for life. I think doing so would be wrong.
  17. patsfan13

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    Try reading the Geneva conventions they aren't covered.
  18. DarrylS

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    Should the Murrah Bombers, McVeigh and Nichols have rights?? Should Eric Rudolph have rights?? Last time I looked at it there were no exclusions in the Constitution, while I do not support anything this group has done, due process may show them the way we do it. What are we gonna do, keep them locked up until they die?? Or just execute them all. Someday they are gonna be released and either they will be looked at a criminals or martyrs.. I prefer the former. The Islamic movement does not need more martyrs to rally around against the US.
  19. Harry Boy

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    Our Smelly Enemy Will Use The Constitution To Destroy The Constitution
  20. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I said it before and I'll say it again: Murderers should have rights under the US Constitution. Those dedicated to the destruction and overthrowing of the United States government should not.
    Then you should learn your history, because courts (and other horrible Presidents, you know, like Abraham Lincoln) have created many such "exclusions" in their actions relating to that very issue I mentioned.
    I can't respond to such a ridiculously vague, blanket statement or question. Let's just say I have no problem with the death penalty Timothy McVeigh, but if you want my opinion on other situations, they would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
    Oh, I am not so sure we need to worry about scum like McVeigh being released anytime soon...
  21. sdaniels7114

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    Seems wackily extreme to me. The Boeing subsidiary, Jeppeson, makes maps. Pilots use these maps to not run into mountains while flying through the clouds. The NOAA is a federal agency that gathers the data used to make the maps. Stuff like the exact locations and heights of all those radio towers out in Needham goes on 'em. The NOAA puts that data on various types of maps and provides the maps to military pilots for free and sells them to civilians on the cheap; but they suck. Nobody likes the way they are laid out and updated. That's why Jeppesen exists. They take the NOAA data and present it in a much easier format to use while flying in the clouds close to the ground. Even military pilots who get the sucky maps for free prefer to pay for the Jeppesen maps. Every time you ride in an airliner or any other plane on a cloudy day and survive the trip, you owe a small amount of thanks to the Jeppesen company. Suing them like this is like suing the guy who paved the road when you get in a car accident.
  22. Harry Boy

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    Your statement reeks of Common Sense that is why most Far Left Liberals will reject it, when cornered on this subject they will start blubbering about bigotry, racism, freedom of speech, and their usual "civil liberties bullsh!t", there is no Civil Liberties for foreign terrorist murderers who want to kill our children and blow our city's up, f-ck them, they are worthless rat bastard swine, and while I'm at it f-ck the scummy ACLU.

    Al Queda & The ACLU want to use the Constitution to DESTROY the Constitution, they want to use our FREEDOM to destroy our FREEDOM and the Far Left Wing American bastards want to help them.
    _______________________________________________________
    Kill Them, If You Don't They Will Kill You.
  23. Pujo

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    I don't know anything about that, I just know that the Bush admin has explicitly said that they are not prisoners of war.
  24. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    There are some half-wits that don't realize why it's dangerous to allow government to decide who does and who doesn't get rights, but luckily they make up maybe 10% of the population and aren't signifiant enough to do anything about it. There's no reason why we can't fight terrorism while staying a rule-of-law country. Adopt-the-strategy-of-your-enemy misses the point.
  25. QuiGon

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    This is a perfectly appropriate statement in both its simplicity and accuracy. At the risk of turning this into a mutual admiration society, you are absolutely right: The Constitution they are trying to destroy is the same document they run and hide behind.

    Kinda silly, huh..?
  26. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A similar analogy would be Bush using signing statements to bypass the rule of the law, the power of Congress, and the Constitution. Though, in all fairness, the ACLU does not have that kind of power and regardless what the ACLU does, the power rests in our court system, and difficult cases are resolved by the SC.

    http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur59.htm

    http://www.acluprocon.org/pop/Battaverage.htm
  27. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Oh yeah...? And has he done any of that to give aid and assistance to al-Qaeda, or any other terrorist organization interested in murdering as many Americans as possible..?

    Yeah, that's why your analogy sucks.
  28. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why yes he has. Under his watch, 9/11 happened; he then sent 21 members of the bin Laden family back to Saudi Arabia while Americans were not allowed to fly; he then launched an effort to kill OBL that failed in part because he didn't provide enough troops; he destroyed Iraq, which made it a place where Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups could do their recruiting; he destroyed Iraq, which gave Al Qaeda a terrific training ground to find ways to overcome our technology advantage. In fact, since 9/11, nearly 4,000 more American have been killed. You didn't know that?
  29. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Oh, you can argue that he has done a poor job in many ways, or employed poor strategies, but I asked you if he ever gave aid or assistance to al-Qaeda or any other terrorist organization. There are miles of difference between "9/11 took place under his watch" and "giving aid and assistance to al-Qaeda".

    I would have thought you'd be smart enough to understand that difference, but I was apparently mistaken. I apologize for overestimating your intelligence. I will try to do a better job of "dumbing down" my posts to your level in the future.
  30. Harry Boy

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    Today June 2-2007 12:09 PM there is a story breaking right now, terrorist pigs were caught trying to blow up JFK airport, I hope our police don't violate their civil liberties, I also hope we don't offend them and I pray to God they read them their rights.

    I would like to offer a small prayer,
    "Dear Jesus son of God, please protect these Terrorists that were trying to kill us from the dirty American police and the terrible American Government, please grant these savage f-cking murderers their Civil Rights.
    A-Men.

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