Welker not re-signing is not the issue; everything else is…

[Brady_to_Moss]

The New England Patriots will miss Aaron Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd more than most PatsFans message board posters realize, especially in the regular season.

Everyone on the board realized that we would miss Ahern on the field from the moment he was arrested. Was a huge part of this O and a match up nightmare

 

[Brady6]

First, they're 3 different players who all happen to have the ability to play in the slot. They don't play precisely the same way, and both Amendola and Edelman adjust easily to a more outside style of play.

We may have been able to afford them this year but it wouldn’t of been possible in 2014 or 2015, and it likely would resulted in us losing a core player entering free agency in those years.

I'm not ignoring anything. In a vacuum, having the mindset that Welker was gone would have been a very stupid thing for Belichick to do. What they did was settle for the (statistically probably) lesser Welker, and one with an injury history. Given that they paid him a fair penny for that runner up signing, the "2 tight end offense" argument completely falls apart.

The money given to Amendola was 5 years for $28.5 million, only $10 million of it guaranteed however, so basically you look at the cap hits for 2013 and 2014

Amendola

2013 - $3,512, 500
2014 - $4,543, 750

Welker

2013 – $4,150,000
2014 - $8,000,000

It is nearly a $4 million variance next year and we have a big jump in Brady’s cap hit as well as key players entering free agency in the next 2 years.

As for the Hernandez thing, it's abundantly clear now that there were plenty of warning signs about the guy's behavior, yet they dropped $40 million on him. If you want to talk about a complete idiot, you can start with the guy who ok'd that.

Ron Borges says so, but who really knows, I certainly don’t believe that conversation took place at the combine.

But you are wrong, and trying to take two games with exceptional circumstances as a means of justifying a position that would be based upon normal circumstances was folly. Adding the "but the position itself..." part of the argument, and trying to compartmentalize an overlapping position just underscores that you know your argument is a poor one.

I am talking about the first 2 games of the season and what has been the issue and it has not been the decision not to resign Welker, it has been the lack of an outside receiver, and lack of tight end production.

 

[SVN]

About lloyd from Bedard today

Greg Bedard's NFL Weekend Notes Column | The MMQB with Peter King

8. The Patriots didn’t inquire about former receiver Brandon Lloyd. If anything, they called him to set up their emergency list like they do at every position to see who might be available should the worst happen. The ship has sailed on Lloyd and the Patriots. He was released because he wasn’t a fit in the locker room, not because of money. I never say never on player acquisitions. Desperation makes people do all sorts of things, but the Patriots aren’t that desperate yet.

At least as per bedard it wasnt because of money.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Welker not re-signing is not the issue; everything else is…

About lloyd from Bedard today

Greg Bedard's NFL Weekend Notes Column | The MMQB with Peter King



At least as per bedard it wasnt because of money.

Bedard is one of the most legit reporters/media members around in my opinion.

 

[patsfan-1982]

it would have been nice if the pats made a Draft day trade for a vet like santana moss or steve smith, Moss is only making like 2 million this year and smith is getting like 4 million, all im saying is they went into the season with a UDFA as the #1 outside WR two slot WR's that average about 9 to 10 games played per season and Gronk has back problems and he's a big part of the run blocking so God forbid he's back could start acting up again at some point

 

[Sciz]

it would have been nice if the pats made a Draft day trade for a vet like santana moss or steve smith, Moss is only making like 2 million this year and smith is getting like 4 million

Why would either of those teams trade their receivers? Both teams, right or wrong, think they're playoff teams and want all the receiving talent they can get.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Why would either of those teams trade their receivers? Both teams, right or wrong, think they're playoff teams and want all the receiving talent they can get.

it did not have to be smith or Moss but IMO they could have made a better effort to get some kind of vet WR with good hands on the roster

 

[ATippett56]

it did not have to be smith or Moss but IMO they could have made a better effort to get some kind of vet WR with good hands on the roster

The New England Patriots could have tendered a higher offer to restricted free agent wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders.

Emmanuel Sanders NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[patsfan-1982]

The New England Patriots could have tendered a higher offer to restricted free agent wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders.

Emmanuel Sanders NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

they kinda went after him befor they re-signed Edelman but that did not work out I guess they did not want to offer more money call me crazy but I think they should have bring a few more vets into camp until one of them stuck

 

[Run DMC]

I don't see how Gronk is going to be the same player right when he gets back. He's missed a lot of time and is probably not in football shape as well as being injury prone like the rest of our main WR corps. We have problems folks.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Everyone on the board realized that we would miss Ahern on the field from the moment he was arrested. Was a huge part of this O and a match up nightmare

Agreed. I thought with Gronk still part of the team, AH wouldn't be quite so desperately missed. I knew we would miss him just not so badly. But with Gronk out and, at best, no real chance for him to be his full self until week 4 or 5 (again that is at best), the Patriots do in fact desperately miss AH.

IMHO the difference between AH's presence and WW's presence is not close whatsoever. AH's presence is missed much much more than WW. This is not to say WW's presence wouldn't be appreciated, it would, but JE is providing a tangible portion of what WW would be providing. Conversely with AH's loss, we got nothing in the TE replacement department(receiving)! Absolutely friggin nothing, nada, zilch. As of this moment teams don't even have to give a cursory concern to the TE position (receiving). And that lack of production/opposition concern for the TE position is killing so much of the offense: TB's production/rhythm and ability to move the chains/control the clock/score. By extension this is keeping our defense on the field longer, not keeping the opposition D honest enough to allow our run game some better holes, even hurting the progression of the new WRs (less open space for them while pushing them to do more than should be expected of rookies). This ripple effect of the loss of AH, IMHO, is conspicuously and incredibly stark. His loss looks to be so grave that if Gronk gets knocked out of the season again, for whatever reason, the Patriots will mightily struggle to achieve a 9 win/winning season. In today's NFL I just don't think a team can succeed without very tangible receiving production from the TE position.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I don't see how Gronk is going to be the same player right when he gets back. He's missed a lot of time and is probably not in football shape as well as being injury prone like the rest of our main WR corps. We have problems folks.

We have problems, agreed. However, IMHO, our problem is mostly one of health. If the Football Gods smile on us in the health department, I believe the O will be ok.Breaking down the passing game's three areas (assuming healthy): backfield, TE, WR:

Backfield: looks to be at least even if not an upgrade (Vereen looks to be upgrade over Woodhead)

TE: Downgrade because of the loss of AH -- but if Gronk is eventually healthy he is one of the best TE's in the game (arguably top 3). High production from the TE spot should be there given the special ability of Gronk.

WR: Last year there was WW and Lloyd then not only very little but almost no chance of improvement. Add to that one of the only two productive WRs was a YAC nightmare. Further, downfield separation was virtually non existent (remember the Rvaens in the AFCCG paying no respect to the Patriots downfield passing game?). This year, arguably, the WR spot will be give many many more downfield opportunities, YAC should be improved, and there will still be lots and lots of over the middle production (JE and DA may both end up near 80 to 100 catches provided the health is there).

Sure, health wise it may not work out (best we can do is keep our fingers crossed) but I prefer to remain optimistic. Beyond the health issue, while I am not saying this year will see the passing potency of last year, the pieces are in place to have a good passing offense. The passing game I described above would have enabled the Patriots to have easily dismissed the Bills and Jets of the last two weeks.

 

[scout]

Obviously, this year will not be about setting records,% of completions, etc. It will be how good are the rookie receivers after 16 games. If one steps up, provided everyone is healthy, we have Gronk (TE), back out of the backfield (Vereen), slot (Amendola), and a WR (rookie). Thompkins is making mistakes but has a huge upside.

The difference this year compared to previous non-title years, is the defense has less holes and come playoff time, we might a threat at WR. We are going to lose games this year due to the offense not being able to produce. Quite honestly, I would rather that happen while developing the young WR's rather then have a great offensive teams with flaws.

 

[weswelker#83]

In a telling statistic, Brady was 13 of 18 (72.2 percent) on passes to Edelman and 6 of 21 (28.6 percent) to all other targets.

What we learned Thursday: Geno Smith not ready - NFL.com

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Hernandez was a huge potential for improvement over 2012. It is an opportunity lost. But make no mistake, the 2012 offense was one of the best in the history of the NFL. Hernandez caught 51 passes for 483 years (9.5 per catch). For comparison, the perfectly awful, easily replaceable, Lloyd had 71 catches for 911 yards (11.2 per catch).

Everyone on the board realized that we would miss Ahern on the field from the moment he was arrested. Was a huge part of this O and a match up nightmare