Welker not re-signing is not the issue; everything else is…

[mcsully]

I can't be the only one that realizes the potential match up problem gronk, thompkins, and dobson can be ?

gronk will take a lot of pressure off the baby receivers.

Gronk with two 70 year old ladies are a match up problem.. He's that good.. Problem is, we don't know what Gronk we are getting.. And the rookie Wr's have had more low points than high points.. When the season starts, TALENT from Rookies DOESN"T MATTER.. Going out there and doing the job is.

 

[DefenseRules]

Welker not re-signing is a huge issue, IMO. Edelman, as hard as he's trying, is a downgrade at that position and Amendola was supposed to be able to play more outside. It doesn't matter at this point and we've got to go with what we've got, but it must burn Brady to see what the Broncos put around Peyton Manning vs. what the Patriots put around him.

I can't speak to how Brady feels, but I know that I am not happy about it. I'm just a fan. I can feel anyway I want. Well it's week 2, I'll keep watching and waiting for improvement. HOWEVER, if these kids are still playing like this when the Broncos, Saints and Ravens are next on the schedule, then the team is in trouble. Our defense did well last night, but they are not a shut down defense. Who knows? By week 5 they might be. Now that would be something. The offense has to be more productive than what we all saw last night. Thank the football Gods the opponent was the Jests, because if they had played a better team that would have been an ugly loss.

 

[Brady6]

If you completely ignore 2 things:

1.) Welker is the best slot WR in the game

2.) Having Welker would mean that the Edelman/Amendola duo would be able to slide outside and put one of the WRs on the bench

you can come to the conclusion you did. Since those two items matter, though, you don't really have a point here.

DI with all due respect, do you seriously believe signing Welker, Amendola and Edelman was ever an option, for that matter after choosing not to extend him prior to the 2012 season do you really believe signing Welker at all was really an option? My belief is that Welker’s exit after the 2012 season was a forgone conclusion.

That aside, the purpose of my OP was that the role that Welker played in the offense is not the problem with the offense, of Brady’s 48 completions this season 30 have gone to Amendola or Edelman, what you’re saying is if we had signed Welker it would of made the team better, which is no different than saying if they had signed Bowe, Wallace or Jennings. Logistically what you’re saying is signing an additional quality wide receiver would have made this team better, that is not what I am attempting convey, I completely agree that signing Welker or another proven receiver or tight end would have made the team better.

 

[Brady6]

Gronk with two 70 year old ladies are a match up problem.. He's that good.. Problem is, we don't know what Gronk we are getting.. And the rookie Wr's have had more low points than high points.. When the season starts, TALENT from Rookies DOESN"T MATTER.. Going out there and doing the job is.

I agree, when healthy Rob Gronkowski is a Calvin Johnson Jr. type player who completely changes the dynamic of an offense, when he is back Brady will have a player he can run the offense through and everyone else benefits from being a lesser option.

• Gronkowski option #1
• Amendola option #2
• Edelman option #3
• Thompkins, Dobson and Boyce in any order as options #4, #5 and #6

The problem right now is that players like Thompkins, Dobson and Boyce are not ready to be more than a 4th, 5th or 6th option in an offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

DI with all due respect, do you seriously believe signing Welker, Amendola and Edelman was ever an option, for that matter after choosing not to extend him prior to the 2012 season do you really believe signing Welker at all was really an option?

Of course they were options.

My belief is that Welker’s exit after the 2012 season was a forgone conclusion.

Then Belichick is an idiot for taking such a stance. Since I don't think Belichick is an idiot, I won't agree with your belief.

That aside, the purpose of my OP was that the role that Welker played in the offense is not the problem with the offense, of Brady’s 48 completions this season 30 have gone to Amendola or Edelman, what you’re saying is if we had signed Welker it would of made the team better, which is no different than saying if they had signed Bowe, Wallace or Jennings. Logistically what you’re saying is signing an additional quality wide receiver would have made this team better, that is not what I am attempting convey, I completely agree that signing Welker or another proven receiver or tight end would have made the team better.

Yes, but you're wrong. You're looking at something in isolation as if it's meaningful when it's not.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

The team simply failed in bringing in even an adequate veteran receiver. We need a #3/#4 who could be a #2/#3.

At the end of the day, this really is it -- not much more needs to be said, I imagine.

I think the Patriots thought they had this guy in Jones. I trust in Belichick's ability to pick out an under the radar guy in the division that he sees twice a year, and I bet Jones would have had something. We need a veteran guy who can reliably catch 4 to 5 balls for 40 or 50 yards -- and so who must occupy the defense. I bet Jones could have been that guy. Too bad we never got to see. What a sad story.

 

[Deus Irae]

3) We've needed a solid downfield receiver since Moss left. That is not the issue. The team simply failed in bringing in even an adequate veteran receiver. We need a #3/#4 who could be a #2/#3. The parade of players was there, but with no success. The patriots used a 2nd, 4th and signed some free agents. They did fine with their choices. And yes, we need one to step up by mid-season or certainly for the playoff run. We knew that before Game One..

The Patriots could have been stacked, with

Welker
Lloyd
Edelman
Amendola
Dobson
Boyce
Thompkins

as the WR corps, if they hadn't been so intent on playing their offseason games. That would have given the team a solid group of starters while allowing the rookies to come along at a better pace for them. Instead, they let Welker and Lloyd go over about $3m-$4m combined, and last night is the logical result.

 

[Leemo]

The Patriots could have been stacked, with

Welker
Lloyd
Edelman
Amendola
Dobson
Boyce
Thompkins

as the WR corps, if they hadn't been so intent on playing their offseason games. That would have given the team a solid group of starters while allowing the rookies to come along at a better pace for them. Instead, they let Welker and Lloyd go over about $3m-$4m combined, and last night is the logical result.

Agreed. Thre thing that annoys me on this site, is all the morons who were happy that Lloys and his 900 yards had gone. ******* idiots. Even with Lloyd and Edelman plus rookies we'd be in alright shape.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

The biggest loss is by far Hernandez.

Gronk and Amendola are injury prone, Welker is a stat guy, doesn't take that extra step in the playoffs.

So, NE needs to sign not one but two veterans. I don't have a list but Terell Owens, Brandon Lloyd, even Ocho or Branch. These 4 can run basic routes and catch, they are also black, not midgets (just saying). I say this considering they are too cheap to trade a pick for a stud.

 

[Ivan]

The slot receiver has been the only productive and consistent position on the offense; Edelman and Amendola have combined for 30 receptions, 261 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns in 2 games. All those who have referred to the team letting Welker walk as this huge screw up; the reality is that the slot position is just fine. The issue is the 1 reception for 5 yards out of the tight end position, and are rookie wide receivers catching just 9 of 33 targets so far this season. I do not believe Welker changes any of that, so if there is a gripe it has more to do with not addressing the tight end position, or the draft selections.

I agree, it wouldn't help to have a guy who averages over 100 REC a year and leads the league in first downs and YAC. I also agree that they should have addressed the TE situation when the reason for letting Welker go was that they already tied too much up in the middle of the field and had two Pro Bowl caliber TE's. I know for sure that had they used their first for a TE the fans here would have been elated.

________________________________________________________________


Amendola and Edelman have both had a great game replacing Welker but that in no way means that they didn't make a mistake with Welker as their receiving corps would be significantly better if they had all 3, and given how cheap they got both Amendola and edelman they definitely had the room to do so.

I applaud them for using two relatively high picks at WR and getting thompkins as a UDFA, now they need to give them the chance to debelop instesad of panicking and bringing in vets who would stunt their growth significantly. they chose to go this route so stick with it and turn them into contributors.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

By the time they develop them, someone will be retired. If they don't care about helping Tom maybe we shouldn't either.

 

[grux]

The major failure is we had & have enough cap room to resign Welker, make a play for A Boldin or bit the lip and go for G. Jennings..

Any article I read, A. Hernandez was on thin ice before this season started.. If that is true, they should have made plans with life without him..

That's the major failure.. BB - Coach, #1.. BB the GM.. Average[/QUOTE]


Who would like to see as our GM?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

If you completely ignore 2 things:

1.) Welker is the best slot WR in the game

2.) Having Welker would mean that the Edelman/Amendola duo would be able to slide outside and put one of the WRs on the bench

you can come to the conclusion you did. Since those two items matter, though, you don't really have a point here.

Deja vu all over again from another thread. I agree with you but don't want to go through the same arguments over and over. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Boomer B]

Agreed. Thre thing that annoys me on this site, is all the morons who were happy that Lloys and his 900 yards had gone. ******* idiots. Even with Lloyd and Edelman plus rookies we'd be in alright shape.

It's week 2. There is a lot of football left. This is not a 14 - 2 or 13 - 3 team right now. We'll probably get to about 11 wins, but that should win the division. We'll take some lumps but if we don't have many significant injuries this team may be able to do some damage in the playoffs. It's better to get the young guys playing now and getting used to the NFL so they are ready for playoff time.

Dobson turns that long bomb from a drop to a catch we would all be talking about what a stud he is. How many long catches did Lloyd have all of last year? In all my time as a football fan (25+ years) Lloyd was probably the most frustrating WR i've seen. He perfected the catch and drop to the ground move.

These guys gotta learn and we'll take our bumps along the way but hopefully they'll be up to speed and playing well come playoff time. I'd much rather go through the growing pains with them then turn to Lloyd and watch him fall down again.

 

[ATippett56]

The New England Patriots will miss Aaron Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd more than most PatsFans message board posters realize, especially in the regular season.

 

[Brady6]

Of course they were options.

So you would have signed Welker, Amendola and Edelman seems redundant to me.

Then Belichick is an idiot for taking such a stance. Since I don't think Belichick is an idiot, I won't agree with your belief.

What you’re ignoring is Wes Welker signed with Denver on 3/14/2013.

That was prior to:

• Lloyd being released on 3/16/2013
• The NFL draft
• Gronkowski having back surgery on 6/18/2013
• Hernandez being released on 6/26/2013

It was not really a stance it was a commitment to the 2 tight end offense, in which he invested $95 million into less than a year before, Belichick is not a psychic and anyone who truly believes he thought Hernandez would be in jail right now is a complete idiot, point, blank, period.

Yes, but you're wrong. You're looking at something in isolation as if it's meaningful when it's not.

I don’t think I am wrong at all, I think Wes Welker would have been resigned to fill the role of slot wide receiver, currently we’re seeing production out of the slot wide receiver position and even if signing Wes Welker would have made the team better it does not invalidate my claim that “not resigning Welker is not the problem” and nothing you’ve said has proven it wrong.

 

[scout]

The major failure is we had & have enough cap room to resign Welker, make a play for A Boldin or bit the lip and go for G. Jennings..

Any article I read, A. Hernandez was on thin ice before this season started.. If that is true, they should have made plans with life without him..

That's the major failure.. BB - Coach, #1.. BB the GM.. Average[/QUOTE]


Who would like to see as our GM?

Yea, we should bring in the GM whose team had the best winning record for the last decade..................nevermind.

 

[Brady6]

I agree, it wouldn't help to have a guy who averages over 100 REC a year and leads the league in first downs and YAC. I also agree that they should have addressed the TE situation when the reason for letting Welker go was that they already tied too much up in the middle of the field and had two Pro Bowl caliber TE's. I know for sure that had they used their first for a TE the fans here would have been elated.

My wife is always complaining I don’t talk to her enough, could you throw some words into my mouth that would change that? I read back through my posts and not 1 time did I say Welker would not have helped, not 1 time did I say we should have addressed the tight end position, not 1 time did I suggest using a 1st round draft pick on a tight end, honestly I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about but your poor attempt at sarcasm here is an utter failure.

Amendola and Edelman have both had a great game replacing Welker but that in no way means that they didn't make a mistake with Welker as their receiving corps would be significantly better if they had all 3, and given how cheap they got both Amendola and edelman they definitely had the room to do so.

That would have made sense, I mean picture this:

Inside/underneath – Welker, Amendola, Gronkowski, Edelman, Hernandez

Outside/downfield - Nobody

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Re: Welker not resigning is not the issue, everything else is…

Amendola (the 3rd best slot receiver in the game when healthy IMO) has been sidelined, and Gronk (the best TE in the game) has been sidelined as well. Both of these guys play with a lot of passion, but injuries tend to limit them.

You people are getting ridiculous. "Injuries tend to limit" Gronk?

I am curious in exactly what world a player is considered injury-prone when some azzhole thug intentionally takes out your ankle, and some other clueless git decides to inadvertently or not target your arm on a meaningless PAT attempt. Because I know it's not in my world.

 

[Deus Irae]

So you would have signed Welker, Amendola and Edelman seems redundant to me.

First, they're 3 different players who all happen to have the ability to play in the slot. They don't play precisely the same way, and both Amendola and Edelman adjust easily to a more outside style of play.

What you’re ignoring is Wes Welker signed with Denver on 3/14/2013.

That was prior to:

• Lloyd being released on 3/16/2013
• The NFL draft
• Gronkowski having back surgery on 6/18/2013
• Hernandez being released on 6/26/2013

It was not really a stance it was a commitment to the 2 tight end offense, in which he invested $95 million into less than a year before, Belichick is not a psychic and anyone who truly believes he thought Hernandez would be in jail right now is a complete idiot, point, blank, period.

I'm not ignoring anything. In a vacuum, having the mindset that Welker was gone would have been a very stupid thing for Belichick to do. What they did was settle for the (statistically probably) lesser Welker, and one with an injury history. Given that they paid him a fair penny for that runner up signing, the "2 tight end offense" argument completely falls apart.

As for the Hernandez thing, it's abundantly clear now that there were plenty of warning signs about the guy's behavior, yet they dropped $40 million on him. If you want to talk about a complete idiot, you can start with the guy who ok'd that.

I don’t think I am wrong at all, I think Wes Welker would have been resigned to fill the role of slot wide receiver, currently we’re seeing production out of the slot wide receiver position and even if signing Wes Welker would have made the team better it does not invalidate my claim that “not resigning Welker is not the problem” and nothing you’ve said has proven it wrong.

But you are wrong, and trying to take two games with exceptional circumstances as a means of justifying a position that would be based upon normal circumstances was folly. Adding the "but the position itself..." part of the argument, and trying to compartmentalize an overlapping position just underscores that you know your argument is a poor one.