Welcome to PatsFans.com

Welker not re-signing is not the issue; everything else is…

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Brady6, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Brady6

    Brady6 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    7,680
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +29 / 6 / -2

    #12 Jersey

    The slot receiver has been the only productive and consistent position on the offense; Edelman and Amendola have combined for 30 receptions, 261 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns in 2 games. All those who have referred to the team letting Welker walk as this huge screw up; the reality is that the slot position is just fine. The issue is the 1 reception for 5 yards out of the tight end position, and are rookie wide receivers catching just 9 of 33 targets so far this season. I do not believe Welker changes any of that, so if there is a gripe it has more to do with not addressing the tight end position, or the draft selections.
  2. deters

    deters Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    This offense was setup great after the draft and in the off season. We had a WR/TE group featuring Amendola, Hernandez, Gronkowski, Edelman and the rookies. We were only supposed to expect production from 1 or 2 rookies in the WR/TE group with that lineup. What was looking like a great offense in the making, is nothing more than a disaster currently...
  3. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,973
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Welker is a receiver and could have been on the field, whether you call him or JE slot or not. It would have made a big difference last night.

    The issue is you have injuries and rookies (Gronkowski will be back and so will Amendola - put them out there and this game is a blowout). Sudfeld may be fine. Shane Vereen has shown he can catch, but he was out. Rookies will make plenty of mistakes when thrown in NFL games, and these did. When bad games become a string of bad games, and drops continue past game 4 with regularity, then I will start diagnosing the team's failings. For many, the hope was this group will be solid by the end of the season.

    If you expected 35 points at the beginning of the season, then you may want to lower that expectation a bit. The Pats won. I will happily take the win at this point.
  4. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10,961
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    True we have been fine in the slot. So far it looks as if Lloyd should have been brought back though, or going harder after Sanders when the Steelers had their hands tied. Knowing that Gronk's status was up in the air, AH is gone, and how injury prone DA is, it was a major risk coming in with nothing but Edelman, Jenkins, Jones, and rookies beyond that.
  5. borg

    borg Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,712
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    We do have cap space which is so comforting
  6. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    8,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Aaron Hernandez and Gronk still being out=the problem. Hernandez SCREWED us bigtime not to mention what a murdering POS he is. As for Gronk, well, he will be back. And at least Amendola's injury isn't as bad as it could be. Just a nagging type thing, which is also annoying. And Vereen would have been helpful too but that was another one of those stupid freak injuries.

    I put Welker waaaay down the list.
  7. sambam94

    sambam94 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    It's a crying shame that we have one of the best QBs in the league, but never gave him a legit outside threat. Imagine Brady with a AJ Green, Julio Jones..heck even a Vincent Jackson type. It's so frustrating...this team is going no where this year with that offense.
  8. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,626
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12 / 1 / -2

    the pats are 2-0 ...... were they 2-0 last year?

    rookies screw up......they'll get better
  9. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,626
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12 / 1 / -2

    the other part of the problem is that people are so used to watching the short game around here that they don't get that the long game is a low percentage game......look at career numbers of some of the long guys like megatron...they catch a total between 50-60% but since all you see in the highlight reel are the good ones, it is easy to assume that all that happens.......it is not
  10. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,783
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +20 / 1 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    Randy Moss says hi as does their 50 2007 TDs. So not tough to imagine.
  11. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,626
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +12 / 1 / -2

    and undrafted guys and 2nd round picks don't come out of the box looking like a 30 year old randy moss

    as for green and jones........they have plenty of 2 catch on 10 target games themselves.....except they don't tell you that on the highlight reel
  12. wolverinejoe80

    wolverinejoe80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I had a problem with Brady's visible frustration. that was my biggest beef.

    first, i'm the biggest brady fan in the world. yes, really. from day 1 at michigan, i liked this guy. i met this skinny good looking dude who doesn't talk much many times at campus. he came a long way to be an outspoken alpha male. but young brady was more reserved with internal fortitude and vibrant aura that filled the room without saying much. boy, did he change over the yeas.

    we really need our general to calm down. it's not helping him or the team. visible stress can intimidate young guys. it happens to all of us. many of us are not extreme competitors like brady. and many of us are not man enough to take the heat. i never met thompkins or dobson, but they are still kids. they may have thick skin or they may not. brady needs to groom them into a critical part of our offense. show them love, and be a father figure. little bit of tough love is ok, but he needs to balance that and help them to be a confident players.

    i saw great things yesterday. potential these kids have are huge. yes, stage is too big for them right now. let them grow. love them, encourage them, and help them to become our WRs for the future.
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,360
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0

    The TE position is the biggest problem with this team right now. Last year, the Pats killed teams with TE up the seam shots. In two games, the TE position has caught one pass. The Pats need Gronk back especially in the red zone.
  14. makoute

    makoute Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Not only that, ATL had to give up almost a whole draft for Jones, and both Jones and Green were top 10 draft picks.
  15. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,502
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Excellent post some of Brady's passes were not the best sprirals I have seen. As noted his fraustration is visible but these young kid's have potential they just have to keep practicing. If our Offense is like this two games from now we are in trouble.
  16. wolverinejoe80

    wolverinejoe80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    brady was brady 1st half. but in the 2nd half he didn't look that sharp. rain + frustration = not a good day of throwing the ball

    i just hope we gradually get better. i don't mind early struggles as long as we learn and grow from it. these young guys will get better. they will have their drops. they will run a wrong route, but they make plays more and more.

    and hopefully by the time they become serviceable, we get our 2 studs back and make all of our worries go away.
  17. chasa

    chasa Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    call me crazy, but this is exactly what the patriots need right now.

    Brady is being forced to help these receivers grow and thats a GOOD thing, no more waiting 3 years while our rookie reciever gets 1 - 2 looks every 3 games because our aging offense is set in stone.

    Now when a rookie plays like crap for a game brady has to keep going to them, and with any luck that rookie is going to start making some god damned catches when the ball hits you directly in the perfect spot over and over and over.
  18. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Welker not resigning is not the issue, everything else is…

    Just my 2 cents.

    Everyone is split on this issue. But does anyone know what the rookies or Brady are like as a colleague? The answer is NO!

    We don't really know the internal dynamics of the group. Actually there was a recent article where Ridley was asked how Brady is this year and he said something to the tune of Brady is different and a lot more patient with the players. He's learning to teach and accept the growing pains.

    Look, this is the NFL. This is not your pop Warner kids where even the last team gets a prize (which I think is ruining society). Was Brady over the line? Who knows? But all I can say is, this outburst is nothing. I'm Asian. I get screamed at almost everything wrong I did growing up. Sometimes get the cane. A future hof QB screaming at you because you CONTINUOUSLY suck at your job shouldn't be a big deal.
  19. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,962
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #70 Jersey

    Yup. The Pats are down to Pro Bowl-quality tight ends from last year, one of them the best in the biz and on a career arc to be in the GOAT discussion. That's a huge impact. Still, don't want them to rush Gronk back.

    Yup again. I'm hoping Dobson and KT and/or Boyce make a nice showing next few weeks and lay the foundation for being more integrated into this offense when the big names come back. Just makes the team better, and keeps their development going.
  20. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    8,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    I would love for Boyce to make any kind of showing at all. HAs he even had a catch? Was he targeted at all last night?
  21. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    That's what's so encouraging too. The affect Gronk will have on our abysmal offense is insane. We're going from the worst TE1 in the league (Hooman) to the best TE1 in the league.

    It'd be like going from Reche Caldwell to... Randy Moss. :p
  22. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,978
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 2 / -0

    #54 Jersey

    That is the whole point, this is not U6 soccer. The NFL is not a learning league, it is a production league. His job is to win championships while he still can, the Patriots have again put the entire season on Brady. He is going to have to push the rock up the hill all year, this usually results in a letdown in playoffs when he is unable to achieve the necessary excellence.

    The rookies may still be in the mindset that several drops per game is acceptable, maybe against East Detroit Junior College but not in the NFL.

    So now Brady must add body language and youth coaching to the other 100 things he has to execute each week, when is enough enough?
  23. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    Exactly when this team was being developed, it was thought that AH would be part of the fold with Gronk joining him later. Instead we have TE's who are not really receiving TE's, which neutralizes that position.

    In the past we never have been a wide receiver offense, as that position seemed complimentary to the TE's, slot receiver and RB's... stuff changed dramatically, and this is the result.

    So everything is topsy turvy, and with predictable results...
  24. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,261
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    So is 2-0, with two wins already over division teams and rookies gaining experience for down the stretch.
  25. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,261
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    Quite the opposite.

    Actually since after the 2006 season , the common theme is that Brady had been pushing the rock DOWNHILL all year long - - thereby not being ready under fire in the playoffs when a truly good opposing D throws the kitchen sink at him.

    Look at those SB winning seasons. He was dealing with smurf WR's and either Wiggins at TE or rookies in 2003-2004. In 2 of those 3 seasons, they were not OK until halfway into the season.

    They had been stocked well since 2006. Maybe the regular seasons got too easy for Brady.

    Perhaps having to learn INGENUITY and IMPROVISATION again will help get the ring in February.
  26. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,783
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +20 / 1 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    I dont mind the body language and yelling that much it just is who he is (or as you point out who has grown to become). Is it possible it could get in the heads of one of the kids, sure but if it does that kid probably didnt have it mentally anyway.

    What I find frustrating about Brady is that he seemingly gets happy feet as he loses the trust that his receivers will do the right thing. Its almost like he is waiting to see them do the right thing rather than trusting them to do it and dealing with the consequences if they dont. Or I suppose his guys were just covered.

    This isnt just something that annoys me about Brady but also about BB and Josh or whoever has been the O-coordinator. They dont seem willing to dumb things down to bring guys along. I am not saying they should can their whole system becuase they have a few rooks but what would be the problem in sending the rooks on some routes that arent option routes so that Brady can know exactly where they will be. They may not get open the same running a route into the wrong coverage instead of chosing the correct option but at least Brady will know where his guys is.

    I think sometimes they need to step back and realize that Brady is so deep into the system and knows it so well that it is virtually impossible for every new face to keep up.
  27. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,097
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    The problem as I see it is we bet on Amendola and lost. He played only 12 games of the last 32, and now is possibly out for several more weeks. (Rarely when they give a range does a guy come back at the beginning of the range. Vereen was originally "4 weeks" and now is 8 to 10. Amendola was originally doubtful and now is two to six.

    Sometimes guys with injury problems just had an injury and come back fine. Other times it means their bodies may not necessarily be designed for football.

    Whether you call them both "slot" receivers or otherwise, having Amendola and Edelman on the field at the same time makes the team better. Having Gronk back will be great. But, at the end of the day, this enterprise this year as currently constructed seems to depend very heavily on Amendola staying on the field. I'm certainly hoping he can do it, but certainly, at this point, not expecting it.
  28. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,243
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    Vereen is "8 to 10" because the Pats put him on IR to free up a roster spot. The other option was to keep him on the roster injured. They needed extra bodies, so they put the player who was likely to be gone the longest.
  29. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    As long at it's early in the season and the Pats continue to hold a winning record I'm going to remain optimistic, and assume that not adapting the system to the talent they currently have is a sign they expect that talent to figure out the system.
  30. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,261
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    I don't buy it. They need vereen badly - - if he could be back from this injury in 5 weeks instead of 8, I'd prefer they kept him on the roster.

    Cut Bequette. No one would notice except his real estate agent.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013

Share This Page