Welker has torn rotator cuff

[FredFromDartmouth]

Right on time!!! "emoney", is there EVER a time when you're not spinning things to the homer side of the fence? Every single post I've ever seen from you has been homerific to the max.

And homerfic is a bad thing?

Better that than being a Felger. Some people in this are are so weak minded that they really believe the bile pumped out by Dennis & Callahan, Borges, and Felger; thus we have people who think that Belichick is arrogant or Moss is a slacker etc. Even DA is starting to slide down the slippery slope of negativism. Read the Boston Barstool for a more balanced opinion...

 

[HarkDawg]

... I quoted that already


Wes Welker-WR- Patriots Mar. 12 - 10:57 pm et

According to the Boston Herald, Wes Welker is rehabbing a torn rotator cuff in his shoulder in addition to his torn ACL and MCL.
No timetable for his return has been given, but by all indications he isn't going to be ready for opening day. The shoulder injury likely required major surgery. We'd be surprised to see Welker on the field before Thanksgiving.
Source: Boston Herald

 

[BostonPatriot]

And homerfic is a bad thing?

Better that than being a Felger. Some people in this are are so weak minded that they really believe the bile pumped out by Dennis & Callahan, Borges, and Felger; thus we have people who think that Belichick is arrogant or Moss is a slacker etc. Even DA is starting to slide down the slippery slope of negativism. Read the Boston Barstool for a more balanced opinion...

Yes, it is. Homerism is just as bad as what Callahan does.

Don't confuse being negative with being realistic. It's not going to be sunshine and roses all the time. That said, I agree with you about Denis and Callahan; they go way to far. In regards to DA, I have to disagree... DA is the most fair guy on the radio, imo. He's not negative or knee-jerk.

Fred, I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but being overly positive is not going to solve some of the major issues this team has.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I don't get this. I've had rotator cuff surgery repair. Before hand I couldn't lift weights overhead or benchpress but I could use it fine. Many people have partial tears and don't even notice it. I likely had a small tear for years before tearing it majorly and getting surgery.

So he wouldn't necessarily have been impacted much.

If he DID have surgery, there is a recovery period, but since he's not doing much because of his knee, there wouldn't be any additional downtime, I wouldn't think.

 

[Patspsycho]

Yeah sorry, I was a bit busy this weekend. I apologize for not living up to your amazing standards as a 24/7 football fan. Thanks again for simply just giving me a link like a respectable person. I've lost all respect for you.

Too busy to read the Globe, Herald, or Providence Journal? Or if you're from out of town, too busy to check out ESPN, PFT, NFLN, not to mention many other sources.

And you still feel justified to take potshots at me?

Epic.

 

[Patspsycho]

I don't get this. I've had rotator cuff surgery repair. Before hand I couldn't lift weights overhead or benchpress but I could use it fine. Many people have partial tears and don't even notice it. I likely had a small tear for years before tearing it majorly and getting surgery.

So he wouldn't necessarily have been impacted much.

If he DID have surgery, there is a recovery period, but since he's not doing much because of his knee, there wouldn't be any additional downtime, I wouldn't think.

Then in that regard, your word takes precedence over whatever I say, since I have never had rotator cuff surgery. However you did say that you did not require surgery until you had a "majorly" tear, which is what I was suggesting in the first place.

 

[emoney_33]

Too busy to read the Globe, Herald, or Providence Journal? Or if you're from out of town, too busy to check out ESPN, PFT, NFLN, not to mention many other sources.

And you still feel justified to take potshots at me?

Epic.

Are you seriously claiming that I can't be a fan unless I read the paper (which I never do) or check up on the internet or sports tv every single day without exception? I'm sorry, but it is abnormal for you to believe that there is no room for not keeping completely up to date with sports. That's bordering on obsession not fanaticism. I still can't believe the absurdity of your post. Once again you were proven wrong with your stupid assertion of what a rotator cuff injury meant and rather than admit your mistakes you try to turn it around to question my fandom. That is what is "epic", now grow up

 

[emoney_33]

Then in that regard, your word takes precedence over whatever I say, since I have never had rotator cuff surgery. However you did say that you did not require surgery until you had a "majorly" tear, which is what I was suggesting in the first place.

You still cannot grasp the fact that the average person do not need to put the same amount of stress on their body that athletes do. Many people may have minor tears but never know BECAUSE they do not stress their shoulders out to the point of limiting performance as an athlete would.

Average people usually don't get surgery unless it's a major tear because minor tears do not impact average daily life. Professional athletes have requirements above and beyond average daily life.

Not only that, but even if it was a major tear, the recovery period for his shoulder coincides with the recovery for his Knee so there should not be any additional missed time because of the rotator cuff.

You took a small piece of information and jumped to wild conclusions. You made false claims and show a deep misunderstanding of the human body and inability to properly research issues. Just stop, move on, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Patspsycho]

Are you seriously claiming that I can't be a fan unless I read the paper (which I never do) or check up on the internet or sports tv every single day without exception? I'm sorry, but it is abnormal for you to believe that there is no room for not keeping completely up to date with sports. That's bordering on obsession not fanaticism. I still can't believe the absurdity of your post. Once again you were proven wrong with your stupid assertion of what a rotator cuff injury meant and rather than admit your mistakes you try to turn it around to question my fandom. That is what is "epic", now grow up

Did I say that?

What I am suggesting is that you look stupid crashing a thread and throwing your opinions around without doing a little reading up on the subject. You literally did not know whether Welker had R.C. surgery or not, but you feel justified to criticize. Now, that's what I call Ben-Hur Epic.

 

[Patspsycho]

You still cannot grasp the fact that the average person do not need to put the same amount of stress on their body that athletes do. Many people may have minor tears but never know BECAUSE they do not stress their shoulders out to the point of limiting performance as an athlete would.

Average people usually don't get surgery unless it's a major tear because minor tears do not impact average daily life. Professional athletes have requirements above and beyond average daily life.

This spouting requires you to assume that SanAngeloState is not an athlete, e.g., plays no sports.

 

[emoney_33]

Did I say that?

What I am suggesting is that you look stupid crashing a thread and throwing your opinions around without doing a little reading up on the subject. You literally did not know whether Welker had R.C. surgery or not, but you feel justified to criticize. Now, that's what I call Ben-Hur Epic.

You need to brush up on basic reading comprehension. I firstly asked if it was fact because I followed the link the OP that did not mention it. Being that whether he had surgery or not was NOT an important part of anything I brought up, I didn't feel the need to go research whether he had it or not. It was more of a side comment. But like happens so often around here, people choose to ignore the entirety of a post just to jump on or nitpick one meaningless point.

The fact of the matter is, most of what I have posted regarding the situation is under the assumption that Welker did get surgery and thus your point about me not knowing is invalid.

You are the one that claimed the RC surgery indicated that A) it was a major tear and B) it would impact his rehab because he couldn't do plyometrics in a sling.

BelichickFan attempted to inject some rationality into the situation by pointing out that you cannot know those things, and you went crazy accusing BF of not knowing what plyometrics is.

I jumped in to show you that your assertions were wrong. You ignored my entire post and tried to turn it into questioning my fandom for not keeping up to date with a relative minor news point.

 

[emoney_33]

This spouting requires you to assume that SanAngeloState is not an athlete, e.g., plays no sports.

No it doesn't really. It assumes he is not a professional athlete, but it doesn't mean he plays no sports. Playing sports as part of your life is a lot different from playing sports as your profession.

 

[Patspsycho]

You are the one that claimed the RC surgery indicated that A) it was a major tear and B) it would impact his rehab because he couldn't do plyometrics in a sling.

Ok, please explain to me why they feel necessary to perform surgery if there was not a near to complete tear of the rotator cuff?

What "minor tear" of the rotator cuff justifies opening someone's shoulder up, and then cutting through the deltoid muscle to get at the rotator cuff itself?

 

[emoney_33]

Ok, please explain to me why they feel necessary to perform surgery if there was not a near to complete tear of the rotator cuff?

I cannot explain why they feel as they do. I readily admit to not having the information rather than attempting to make bold claims in the absence of information. However one potential reason is that a small tear in the RC has a higher chance of getting worse over time. Another potential reason is a small tear will prevent maximal performance and training and since the ACL is already limiting his mobility for 4-6 months, it was a good time to perform surgery that was deemed to have likely been needed at some point in his career. Rather than risk needing it when he is at a healthier point.

What "minor tear" of the rotator cuff justifies opening someone's shoulder up, and then cutting through the deltoid muscle to get at the rotator cuff itself?

A few things here

The term "minor tear" does not indicate lack of a problem or concern. Any "tear" is automatically a concern, even more so in an athlete. It also does not have to be a classic tear that requires rotator cuff repair surgery. There are 3 types of procedures that are performed for rotator cuff issues. Impingement surgery, rotator cuff repair and arthroscopic surgery. Only the Repair requires opening up and cutting through the deltoid. A minor tear can be fixed with arthroscopic surgery, which also requires a much shorter healing period.

Once again, it all comes down to lack of information. The only thing we know is that he had a surgical procedure with something to do with his rotator cuff. It can be anything from a minor arthroscopic procedure to a major repair operation.

As far as I understand it, and I could be wrong, a major tear usually occurs from a traumatic injury or from repetitive stress from overhead motions like that of a pitcher. We probably would have known about it if it was a traumatic injury during a game and it's unlikely from repetitive stress. It's always possible that he may have torn it lifting weights, so major tear is not out of the question.

Also, I'll reiterate, that even if he had a major tear the "average" timetable for resuming physical activity is 4-6 months. The "average" timetable to begin stressful exercise (i.e. plyometrics) is 4-7 months. So in the worst case his RC should be ready by the time he needs it to be.

 

[Patspsycho]

I
A few things here

The term "minor tear" does not indicate lack of a problem or concern. Any "tear" is automatically a concern, even more so in an athlete. It also does not have to be a classic tear that requires rotator cuff repair surgery. There are 3 types of procedures that are performed for rotator cuff issues. Impingement surgery, rotator cuff repair and arthroscopic surgery. Only the Repair requires opening up and cutting through the deltoid. A minor tear can be fixed with arthroscopic surgery, which also requires a much shorter healing period.

Once again, it all comes down to lack of information. The only thing we know is that he had a surgical procedure with something to do with his rotator cuff. It can be anything from a minor arthroscopic procedure to a major repair operation.

If it had in fact, been a procedure, then it would have been called a "procedure" as in "Welker underwent a procedure." But the fact is that it was a surgery. Welker underwent surgery.

Here is one of many links:

Welker had shoulder surgery - The Boston Globe

You may disagree with Breer, and that is your proclivity. But the fact remains that it WAS a surgery, which by logical definition indicates a near to complete tear, because nothing less than that would justify cutting the deltoid muscle.

 

[emoney_33]

If it had in fact, been a procedure, then it would have been called a "procedure" as in "Welker underwent a procedure." But the fact is that it was a surgery. Welker underwent surgery.

:sigh: Again, with the nitpicking on minor crap to avoid the facts. I'm sorry that I used the word "procedure" since you apparently don't like that word.

arthroscopic surgery is in fact surgery, of which does not require cutting through the deltoid muscle. Stop trying to make things what they aren't, my goodness, accept the fact that there ARE indeed other possibilities.

A minor tear can be fixed with arthroscopic surgery and NOTHING that we know is contradictory to that being a legit possibility.

Here is one of many links:

Welker had shoulder surgery - The Boston Globe

You may disagree with Breer, and that is your proclivity. But the fact remains that it WAS a surgery, which by logical definition indicates a near to complete tear, because nothing less than that would justify cutting the deltoid muscle.

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with Breer. He reported Welker's surgery, I believe Welker had surgery. He does not know the severity of the LIKELY tear nor does he know what surgery was performed.

Surgery does NOT indicate a near to complete tear by any logical definition in the universe. Minor tears have been treated with the same surgery as major tears, only recently has arthroscopic surgery become common for minor tears.

The only "fact" we know is that it is being reported that he had some sort of tear. From that it COULD be a minor or major tear. And he could have had either of the two types of surgery I mentioned if it was minor.

 

[emoney_33]

Some references...

How Are Rotator Cuff Problems Treated?

Surgery

Surgical repair of a completely torn rotator cuff repair may be performed as "open" surgery, requiring a two- to three-inch incision in the shoulder.

It is, however, becoming more common for surgeons to perform arthroscopic surgery, in which a video camera and surgical instruments are inserted through a small incision about the size of a buttonhole. Surgeons sometimes use a combination of arthroscopic and open surgical techniques.

Rotator cuff surgery can be performed under general anesthesia (with the patient asleep) or regional anesthesia (with the patient awake.)

Your Orthopaedic Connection: Rotator Cuff Tears and Treatment Options

The three commonly used surgical techniques for rotator cuff repair are:

* Open repair
* Mini-open repair
* All-arthroscopic repair

Only "Open repair" requires detaching the deltoid btw.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Well mine was torn halfway through and it was done arthroscopically, but even if it were a complete tear, they could have done it that way, I believe. They punch 3 holes but don't have to cut all the way through the deltoid.

I don't know, I used to work out constantly and likely had a small tear. When I tore it badly, I couldn't work out but could do everything else without noticing. It's possible Welker could do his WR duties with it torn as badly as mine was and not be too much off his game. As long as he didn't have to lift weights over his head or away from his body...just raising the arm wouldn't have been a problem, at least it wasn't with me.

Anyway, I think he'll be good to go on that front. The knee...I'm not sure about, hopefully he'll be near 100% by playoff time...

 

[Patspsycho]

Well mine was torn halfway through and it was done arthroscopically, but even if it were a complete tear, they could have done it that way, I believe. They punch 3 holes but don't have to cut all the way through the deltoid.

I don't know, I used to work out constantly and likely had a small tear. When I tore it badly, I couldn't work out but could do everything else without noticing. It's possible Welker could do his WR duties with it torn as badly as mine was and not be too much off his game. As long as he didn't have to lift weights over his head or away from his body...just raising the arm wouldn't have been a problem, at least it wasn't with me.

Anyway, I think he'll be good to go on that front. The knee...I'm not sure about, hopefully he'll be near 100% by playoff time...

That does provide insight. Interesting- thanks for sharing.

 

[Patspsycho]

:sigh: Again, with the nitpicking on minor crap to avoid the facts. I'm sorry that I used the word "procedure" since you apparently don't like that word.

arthroscopic surgery is in fact surgery, of which does not require cutting through the deltoid muscle. Stop trying to make things what they aren't, my goodness, accept the fact that there ARE indeed other possibilities.

A minor tear can be fixed with arthroscopic surgery and NOTHING that we know is contradictory to that being a legit possibility.



It has nothing to do with disagreeing with Breer. He reported Welker's surgery, I believe Welker had surgery. He does not know the severity of the LIKELY tear nor does he know what surgery was performed.

Surgery does NOT indicate a near to complete tear by any logical definition in the universe. Minor tears have been treated with the same surgery as major tears, only recently has arthroscopic surgery become common for minor tears.

The only "fact" we know is that it is being reported that he had some sort of tear. From that it COULD be a minor or major tear. And he could have had either of the two types of surgery I mentioned if it was minor.

I am logically inferring that the injury was major, and I may well be wrong, but I am sticking to my inference based on a few facts- 1) the original source Big Rips reported it as "torn rotator cuff" which is not a minor tear by any stretch of the word. 2) Welker has been receiving treatment at MGH which is elite when it comes to surgery. 3) He was treated by the same doctor who did Maroney's torn labrum.

You probably will disagree, but those are the facts I base my decision on, and unless clearly proven wrong, will continue to maintain that distinction.