Welker "could" get traded to us instead?

[BelichickFan]

I think you don't understand RFA tenders. The Dolphins gave Welker a second round tender. If we go the RFA offer route, we will give the Dolphins a second rounder. There is no option other than a trade. The Dolphins are GUARANTEED a second round pick if someone signs Welker away from them. Why settle for less?

Why settle for less ? Because they may not get a RFA offer from anyone and may prefer a #3 to keeping him.

 

[Trot]

I don't see the incentive for a deal here.

Well, what about that the dolphins get say a 2nd and a 5th, and the patriots get the player at the tender--or at a smaller contract than the offer sheet. That way, the dolphins get more than what they would get merely by not matching and in return the Pats get better value on the contract.

Just thinkin' aloud.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Of course they can redo the deal. They can restructure it so that he isn't getting it as much against the cap this year and guarantee more in the future. I may have misspoke about the guarantee money, but word was the Pats are frontloading the contract to make it impossible for the Dolphins to match. If they restructure it after a trade, then they have more cap room to do other things.

Again, the Dolphins are guaranteed a second round pick if they lose Welker. Why would they trade him for less to a division opponent?

If you won the lottery and you were going to get a million dollars after taxes in two months, would sell the rights to someone else for $500k to get the money now?

The Pats 2nd rounder is low - #60 or so. We could be talking to them about a player+lower pick, or 2 lower picks - maybe a 3rd + a 4th. Phins need to rebuild and may prefer multiple picks to one. We have comp picks coming and could afford to give up that xtra pick.

 

[SamBamsFan]

Great question. From all of Reiss' accounts - NO, they haven't. They are only in discussions.

The only one who has said there was an offer was the writer from nfl.com. Other reports have sourced his article, but no one else confirmed an offer.

 

[BelichickFan]

I don't see the incentive for a deal here.

Well none of us have any idea what value the Dolphins put on Welker. If they value him as equal to a #2 pick then, no, there's no incentive. However if they value him as equal to a #4 pick and the Patriots value him as equal to a #3 then there is incentive.

 

[patsgo]

And would you expect his agent to say there were no RFA offers ?

GIVEN YOUR 3 DAYS INTO FREE AGENCY WHY WOULD THE DOLPHINS FOLD, THEY CAN WAIT IT OUT OR WORST CASE HE PLAYS FOR THEM, TRUST ME THEY WILL NOT SETTLE FOR LESS

 

[PATSNUTme]

"That's crazy talk" We can give a 2nd round pick, why would we trade OC, Wright, or even Kazur. Everyone is a surer thing than a draft choice. And to think they trade a 1st round selection (Jackson) to save a 2nd round pick is just plain dumb.

This was speculation because there is speculation of a trade. The Fins may want proven NFL players instead of maybe NFL players- they need them.

We, on the other hand, can trade a good backup/sometimes starter because we have the depth at the positions that they need.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree. The only reason to initiate a trade is to give up less not more.

How are the Dolphins going to give up less than Welker? Are they going to cut off his arm?

PEOPLE! THE DOLPHINS ARE GUARANTEED A SECOND ROUND PICK FOR WELKER!!!!!!!! They have absolutely no reason to negotiate a trade unless they are getting more value than the Pats' second round pick. None. Zero. Ziltch. Nada!

The starting point in negotiations is a second round pick and goes up from their. It could be the Pats are trying to trade second round value worth of players or the Pats trying not to structure the deal in an uncap friendly way. But the Dolphins are guaranteed to get second round value for Welker and probably more in a trade.

 

[Jimke]

We will probably have three 6th round picks and two 7th round picks

when our compensatory picks are awarded.

I don't think they would be dumb enough to accept Hill, Childress, or

Mruczkowski instead of draft picks.

Making a trade would expedite the matter and the Pats would not have to

wait a week for an answer. They could then move along to player #5

who is on their list.

 

[BelichickFan]

GIVEN YOUR 3 DAYS INTO FREE AGENCY WHY WOULD THE DOLPHINS FOLD, THEY CAN WAIT IT OUT OR WORST CASE HE PLAYS FOR THEM, TRUST ME THEY WILL NOT SETTLE FOR LESS

OK, Mr. Inside Info, next time I need to know what's going on for sure, I'll come and ask you. I don't know . . . and neither do you.

 

[NE39]

There are only 2 logical explanations:

1) Pats are seeing if they will accept some other form of compensation, either a player, different picks, or both.

2) The league doesn't want to see another poison-pill RFA offer sheet and is telling the teams to work it out.

 

[patsgo]

The Pats 2nd rounder is low - #60 or so. We could be talking to them about a player+lower pick, or 2 lower picks - maybe a 3rd + a 4th. Phins need to rebuild and may prefer multiple picks to one. We have comp picks coming and could afford to give up that xtra pick.

THAT MAKES SENSE

 

[BelichickFan]

PEOPLE! THE DOLPHINS ARE GUARANTEED A SECOND ROUND PICK FOR WELKER!!!!!!!!

No they aren't.

They're guaranteed Wes Welker or a second round pick. How do you know they wouldn't prefer a third round pick to keeping him ?

 

[Rob0729]

The Pats 2nd rounder is low - #60 or so. We could be talking to them about a player+lower pick, or 2 lower picks - maybe a 3rd + a 4th. Phins need to rebuild and may prefer multiple picks to one. We have comp picks coming and could afford to give up that xtra pick.

That could be a possibility. One thing is for sure is the Dolphins aren't going to take less than a second round pick value. There is no reason not to. They could get the Pats second and trade down themselves otherwise.

 

[townes]

Well, what about that the dolphins get say a 2nd and a 5th, and the patriots get the player at the tender--or at a smaller contract than the offer sheet. That way, the dolphins get more than what they would get merely by not matching and in return the Pats get better value on the contract.

Just thinkin' aloud.

I can't imagine the patriots reducing their offer to Welker and increasing the payment to the fish, and the players union, which successfully opposed the elimination of poison pills would go apesh.t. Better to simply do the deal as it stands and give them the 2nd imo.

 

[wahwho]

Maybe Welker is balking at the idea of signing an offer sheet with a poison pill in it? Either just out of a sense of 'fair play' or because he feels that a poison pill reduces the value of any offer he's going to get (since the Dolphins aren't going to be able to match it, whoever's signing him won't have any competition to drive up his price.)

 

[BelichickFan]

One thing is for sure is the Dolphins aren't going to take less than a second round pick value.

If they would prefer a #3 to Welker and no-one offers more then they will.

 

[patsgo]

OK, Mr. Inside Info, next time I need to know what's going on for sure, I'll come and ask you. I don't know . . . and neither do you.

DONT COME TO ME ITS ONLY COMMON SENSE

 

[Trot]

I can't imagine the patriots reducing their offer to Welker and increasing the payment to the fish, and the players union, which successfully opposed the elimination of poison pills would go apesh.t. Better to simply do the deal as it stands and give them the 2nd imo.

I agree; I think a 2 is ok, depending on the contract. I'm just wondering what the possible incentive (for both sides) for a trade could be.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Guys, the poison pill provision in any contract would not effect the Pat's, just the Dolphins. It wouldn't requrre any more or less guaranteed or bonus money from us to do a poison pill deal. Just a clause that says if he isn't the highest paid WR on the roster when he signs it (here that would mean $1.5M) or the if he plays more than x games per year in Miami the entire deal is guaranteed.

Maybe the league asked the teams to work it out so no poison pill deals would be done this season - or maybe Miami already threatened to retaliate by signing Randall Gay to a $38M deal with similar pill clause (although on second thought they couldn't because they don't have a 2nd rounder to give so Pioli would call that bluff).

We couldn't restructure Welker's deal after signing him because you can't revisit deals more than once every 12 months I believe which is why the Seymour extension had to wait until last August. But again, there is no reason to believe any deal discussed with Welker was front loaded - poison pills tend to have little to do with structure (and if they did it would be to the former team if retained) but rather guaranteeing money no one in their right mind would. And in fact no one including his agent has suggested that a sheet was already signed.

You know if Miami is in the running for Porter they may need to free up cap space. And the Pat's knowing they don't really want Wes on the books at even the tender might just be trying to leverage that as well. Belioli leave no stone unturned so if they want Wes he will be here for a 2nd rounder OR LESS.