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Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by cstjohn17, Jan 8, 2012.

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  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Is there year that the old adage "defense wins championships" gets put aside?

    Watching how Payton coached the Saints makes be think things have shifted, it is a about score, score, score. It will be interesting to see how the weather slows things down.

    The league finally got its wish.
  2. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Elements aside, last nights game reminded me of arena football or college football moreso than NFL football. The early game reminded me moreso that some things never change, like the Bungles...
  3. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    The 2009 Saints won with a prolific offense and a defense that wasn't ranked very high, though they got a lot of turnovers. And they beat a Colts team that was similar.

    But yes, it seems that is the trend moving forward. While the top 4 defensive teams all made the play-offs (including 3 division winners and 2 byes), you could easily argue that 3 of the top 4 favourites would be offensive teams without much in terms of defense (Packers, Saints, Patriots). The only defensive team I'd add to the favs would be the Ravens.

    Maybe you could add the Steelers or Texans if healthy, or maybe the 49ers if you believe in Alex Smith :rofl: (seriously, it's Alex Smith). But it does seem to be shaping up as a shoot-out in the Super Bowl.
  4. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I'm torn.....

    One one hand, I think the Pats are taking total advantage of the rule changes by implementing the double TE package. Seeing that defensive players aren't allowed to even breathe on receivers, the TE and their physical attributes have even more of an advantage in the passing game. Not to mention, but ensuring that the QB can't get roughed-up unnecessarily, that could pay dividends down the road when TB his his late 30s.

    On the other hand i'm not a fantasy football guy or a Madden gamer (was in college though :D ), but I do love football and have an appreciation for the history of the game. I love good, tough, hard-nosed defensive football and power running games and I always will. With that said, watching a pass-happy 45-28 shootouts when the defense has zero chance to be stout bothers me as I don't think it's really "football". I like what the Texans did yesterday. While the QB play was rough to watch, the Texans pounding the ball and playing great D was closer to a real "football" than the track meet going on in NO. Maybe it was more of what I grew up with which is why I enjoyed that particular game more.

    I've never been a believer in the "defense wins championships" bravado as I think the most balanced, toughest, smartest team wins Super Bowls. I still believe that in the best interest of football that SHOULD still be the case. However I am skeptical that we will see that this year. The league has changed no question.

    Greg Bedard's column highlights this issue. I remember that 1983 SB- Raiders vs Skins. I knew that the Raiders would win because they had the tougher team and they were better defensively. Kinda sad that is potentially not true anymore....
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  5. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

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    It sucks!.......
  6. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    The league has legislated the soul out of the game for fantasy statistics and people who don't care about football.
  7. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    #50 Jersey

    The league rules have changed. It is more weighted to good quartebacks and receivers. Defensive players can't hit quarterbacks, they can't hit receivers coming across the middle, they can't get to near to defend a pass. This has completely openned up the middle of the field, and players like the Pats receivers and tight ends are set up to exploit it. The Pats, Packers and Saints have been built to take advantage of this. I believe we will see good offense beat good defense this year.

    I, too, miss the hard hitting, but, I also have seen the long term effects on players that are my age. They are crippled, both mentally and physically. The league is trying to protect itself and it's players. The retired players living under bridges, suffering from dementia is not what the league wants to be known for.
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I hope not i couldn't watch. I couldn't watch a game where the last team to get the ball wins. I was thinking about this last night, at this rate in five years it could turn into fast break arena ball. If thats the case i'm done with it.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  9. cavtroop

    cavtroop Rookie

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    I feel the same way. I used to watch every single game on TV on Sundays. Now I only watch the Pats game, unless there is some big matchup on. I used to watch any game - even crappy ones. But not anymore. I'm not interested in Arena ball, or 45-32 score games. I like defense.

    It doesn't have to be super hard hitting, smash the receivers until dementia defense either. I just want DB's to be able to play the ball - I want to be able to watch a long ball thrown without having to hold my breath waiting for the inevitable flag. I don't want to see 3 play, 80 yard TD drives aided by a 60 yard marginal PI call.
  10. borg

    borg Rookie

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    I hate today's NFL. It's aweful. It's no longer the best team, its the team with the best QB. Thank God the Patriots are one of just a handful of teams that have such a QB. Never before have the other 21 starters been rendered so insignificant. Give me the '85 Bears, a team that inflicted its will on the opposition on both sides of the ball, despite their QB. Give me the '04 Patriots with a complete team and a RB that could close out games with pounding authority.
    Look at Detroit, lots of premium assets on their defense....rendered obsolete. Because the way the rules are written and enforced, Belichick should go use '12 draft picks and just go offense.....acquire the big speedy outside WR, acquire a 3 down back, like Jonathan Stewart (binky alert) with size and pass catching ability, another stud interior lineman....and of course the next great TE. Trade for vets, draft for studs....I don't care. All I know is that Brady has a few good years left and it is clear that Superbowls will be contested by high powered offenses... not by teams that are balanced on both sides of the ball. Might as well have a complete arsenal of weapons.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  11. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    #50 Jersey

    What he said....
  12. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I do wonder about how the great defenses of the 70s, 80s and 90s would match up vs these offenses. Obviously those players would need to get their weight up and get in the same physical sphere as today's players but schematically and with todays rules they would be completely neutered.

    For example The 85 Bears "46" defense had 8 players on the LoS with the CBs playing 8 yards off the WRs or play bump-n-run. Good luck with that defense vs the Saints when Brees has the ball out of his hands in 3 seconds and the CBs can't jam the WRs after 5 yards...

    And the players...DBs like Mel Bount, Charlie Waters, Lester Hayes, Ronnie Lott, Mark Collins, abused WRs. Along with great hands, that was their game.

    Same goes for those Steeler, Dallas, 49er, Bears and Giants front 7 players. They pummeled QBs. That was their game. Can't anymore.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  13. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I want someone to explain to me that if it's all about great QBs,great WRs and little defense then how has Baltimore and San Francisco been able to get by when neither has a great QB,great WR corps but great defense...how are these two teams the exception?
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The key word is get by. Neither has won anything meaningful in a long time. One competes in a perennially mismanaged and consequently sketchy division. The other in a division with something of a dinosaur mentality where two of them beat the snot out of each other and the other two are just pathetic due to consistent mismanagement.
  15. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    That's why I'm predicting that we will draft or sign another above average TE and utilize more 3TE sets. It not only protects Brady but it'll improve both our run and pass game with impossible matchups.
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Baseball has gone the same route. It's because hardcore fans are perceived as a captive audience and the casual fans and the new age gaming and fantasy fans these sports are all chasing don't appreciate things like defense and pitching. Used to love to watch pitchers duels and defensive brawls. Casual fans are bored by that kind of programming. They want to see highlight reel hitting and circus catches and breakaway runs. The rest including strategic crap bores them.

    I never really followed basketball but it too apparently went the route of defense is boring and it's all about breakaways and dunks. Eventually they will change hockey although it's core fanbase hasn't been overwhelmed by casual audiences yet.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  17. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Lets talk in 4 weeks. Balt and SF aren't there yet. The all offense/no defense formula ruled the regular season...no doubt. If the Pats don't make it in the show, I'll be on the bandwagons' of BOTH SF and Balt because I admire tough Ds and power running. I experience zero entertainment watching Drew Brees go on 15-16 run. The pitch and catch product is crap.
  18. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    You are assuming that SF and BAL have great defenses.

    SF hasn't won anything and neither has BAL.

    Until either team holds NE, GB or NO under 24 points they are suspect.
  19. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Between NE, NO, AND GB the first team to play a semblance of defense will win.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  20. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Getting off topic slightly...the Saints offense is scary good because they have 4 dimensions that both the Patriots and Green Bay don't have in the passing game.

    Pats have plus QB, plus TEs, neutral WRs (Branch weakness), minimal RB contribution as receiver
    GB has plus QB, neutral TE, plus WRs, neutral RB receiving

    NO has plus QB, plus TE, plus WR, plus RB receiving to the tune of 150+ RB receptions. Sproles and Thomas are tremendous not only in their output, but their receiving threat opens the center of the field unlike GB and NO. No wonder Brees has such a high completion %. I see the Saints as the favorite right now.
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