Welcome to the New England Patriots, Safety Duron Harmon

[Nunchucks]

It's actually a very valid example. But choose to dismiss it as irrelevant if you must...

Meh, it is an example of him getting beat deep two games in a row. He played fairly well other than those two plays.

You know, I saw Tom Brady duck at phantom rushers last year, he must have lost his courage, he is just a scared guy playing the QB position with fear in his eyes. Afterall, he did it more than once.

 

[BelichickFan]

It's actually a very valid example of how a player's awareness can be talked up (particularly one that was considered a reach by the greater majority) only to have that player show very little awareness. But choose to dismiss it as irrelevant if you must...

No it's not. They're two different players, two different people. Wilson's mistakes aren't Harmon's mistakes.

 

[EwanSellars]

i dont mind the pick at first i was freaking out since we couldve had greene or patton but knowing he is two time all big east and seeing his stats and what mayock said about him i feel better i still hope we can get patton though

 

[The Scrizz]

So my uneducated opinion (which makes it about equally educated to everyone else here) is thus:

You don't know ****, anymore than I know ****. The draft 'analysts' follow two types of players. Big School big name guys and combine workout wonders. Oh, and guys who have big Bowl games. And the draft guru's here follow the analysts.

There are thousands of college football players. Just because you haven't seen one doesn't mean they aren't good.

From the stuff people on the board have said it seems like those who have actually seen him like him. 1st Team All-Big East. So the coaches in the Big East obviously liked what they saw.

Great feedback from scouts at the NFLPA Bowl. And it's safe to say that Belichick has seen more of him than most of the NFL teams.

ScarletNation.com - Harmon waiting out the Draft here's an interview from after his pro-day which was attended by probably zero analysts.

"I'm hearing middle rounds to free agency; anywhere from fourth to seventh round or even free agency," he said.

There is hardly consensus on most of these guys. His numbers look no different than a whole bunch of other higher-rated safeties and he seems pretty smart.

If he was at the Combine (which he no doubt would have been if he played for say an SEC team) he would have probably have been a 'riser' which is analyst-speak for 'I never looked at this kid before but now scouts seem to like him.

Playing for a bigger school and being rated higher doesn't make someone a better player or there wouldn't be busts year in and year out in the NFL. And I'm talking 1st round, top-10 busts.

I would also add to all of the WTF picks that made good one Matt Cassel. I don't think there was a single person happy that the Pats wasted a draft pick, even a late one, on a kid who hadn't even started in college. And yet he became an NFL starting QB.

So if it makes me a homer to admit that I (and all of you) have about .0000001% of the knowledge and information on ANY college football player that BB has... well I guess I'm a homer.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Understand your exasperation. Getting Harmon with the Pats' own 3rd round pick at 91 (the pick that was offered to Pittsburgh for Sanders) -- that is a wasted pick. If BB loved Harmon, he could have signed the kid as an undrafted rookie free agent, and the kid who NO ONE knows, would have happily signed. But for BB to claim, Harmon represents good value at 91, is for him to be a bit disingenuous. NO TEAM was expected to draft him in the 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th rounds. Most experts had him as a "priority free agent". Kipper had him as his 42nd ranked Safety for Pete's sake. How can it be GOOD "VALUE" when the Patriots could have in all likelihood, had him as an uncontested free agent signing for a $25,000 signing bonus. He may have a 3.8 gpa but last I checked that does not make him a good football player. If he came in as an undrafted player, he would then represent good value if he earned a roster spot based on TC competition. As it is, if Harmon is good value, BB is admitting Tavon Wilson (another unknown, he positioned as a "value pick" last year) was a mistake after his rookie year.

I'm sorry. I believe BB is a great coach. I believe he is a good GM. But I am not buying into investing a valuable 3rd round on an unknown when a number of attractive WRs like Bailey, Patton, Rodgers or any number of highly productive DL and OL are available.

Draft picks are a scarce commodity. When you use them to grab a 1st or 2nd round highly rated, productive players who fall to you in the late third round, that is a VALUE PICK. Picking someone who likely would have been undrafted in round 3-- that on draft day called A REACH (politely).

I'm sorry but the Washington Redskins had him on their radar.

Harmon totally dominated the NFLPA bowl game. Mike Mayock didn't know anything about him until then, and promptly raised him from nowhere to the 4-5th round, with out really scouting him...

 

[ausbacker]

Sure it did. If you really "cared about the players", you would care about level of competition or at least take that into account with an asterisk when trying to compare two players to one another using statistics. Not doing so is disingenuous at best and reeks of someone stretching as far as they can to defend a decision that they ultimately know was a bad one (as evidenced in your last four sentences). But it's good to see that you don't care that your favorite team reached.

:bricks::bricks::bricks:

Don't blame me for your failure to comprehend a made comment discussing that very point. Feel free to get your knickers in a knot that the Patriots reached. I'll get on with the business of following the Patriots.

All it takes is one selection before the Patriots to lose their man Kontra. One.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I met this guy's highschool coach today at my work. He overheard a steeler fan and myself going at it and started talking to me. Nice enough guy told me he spoke to Duron after the pick, said he is uber excited and can't wait to play for the pats. He is flying up tomorrow morning I think also said he really loves the game and how great a kid he was to coach.

I am in tomorrow so will prob find his room and be annoying, let you guys know what i can dig up :rocker:

 

[mrscruff]

At the very back end of the 3rd, if he turns out a solid pro like James Sanders I can live with that.

 

[manxman2601]

Harmon will be the best Scarlet Knight we took in this draft. Started watching Rutgers games to get a feel for our new players and Harmon is fantastic at supporting against the run, he really lays the wood. Also looks comfortable in coverage. He's my favourite Rutgers pick.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

What questions should I ask? I will pass along any questions for Duron Harmon's highschool coach hopefully today when I see him.

 

[mrscruff]

How is this for a theory?

In an obscure interview Harmon mentions that he may get picked in the middle rounds of the Draft thus planting the first seeds of doubt in BB's mind about where he will be selected:

The unknown of the NFL Draft has even Harmon playing the guessing game as to when he will be selected.

"I'm hearing middle rounds to free agency; anywhere from fourth to seventh round or even free agency," he said.

ScarletNation.com - Harmon waiting out the Draft


Knowing how the Patriots leave no stone unturned, he knows that this titbit will be picked up on the grapevine.
Then in another interview he carefully mentions a possible destination:

FD: How did your Pro Day go? Any certain teams show extra interest?
DH: My pro day went really well, but I did strain my left hamstring on my second forty attempt and had to pull up but I still ran a 4.58. As for teams, I would have to say the New England Patriots and the Baltimore Ravens showed me some extra attention.

Football Dialogue: Q&A with Rutgers Safety--Duron Harmon


Not wanting to be gazumped by the Ravens at the back of the third round, BB pulls the trigger.

Call me crazy but I think BB got schooled by future lawyer Duron Harmon.

That is how you go from undrafted free agent to 3rd round pick.

PS: Can we just ignore the bit about the Ravens picking Matt Elam in the first otherwise the theory does not hold much water!:lol2:

 

[BradyFTW!]

Meh, it is an example of him getting beat deep two games in a row. He played fairly well other than those two plays.

You know, I saw Tom Brady duck at phantom rushers last year, he must have lost his courage, he is just a scared guy playing the QB position with fear in his eyes. Afterall, he did it more than once.

He got beat deep, exactly one week after the Patriots lost a game because he was beat deep on the exact same play. That's inexcusable, and there's a reason why he didn't see the field very much after that.

 

[Coach42]

He got beat deep, exactly one week after the Patriots lost a game because he was beat deep on the exact same play. That's inexcusable, and there's a reason why he didn't see the field very much after that.

Yes its the repeat mistakes that are scary. Everyone that sees the field is going to blow one from time to time but the same route in back to back games is a no no at BB's house.

 

[Coach42]

I find it interesting how much of the draft is really just group think and no real individual analysis. For a non Patriots example let's look at the Raiders. If the draft was held in early April and they had traded back to 12 from 3 and drafted DJ Hayden the Draftniks would have been absolutely KILLING them. However, Mayock came out with his top 100 and labeled Hayden the top corner. Suddenly Hayden is being consistently mocked in the top 20 and his top 12 selection barley raised eyebrows. Mayock's simple validation made this an acceptable "value".

Now lets look at Harmon. He has the physical attributes, he has the accolades (2 time all Big East) and apparently has the respect of his teammates and coaches (team captain and several gushing quotes). So if Harmon's name had just been mentioned by Mayock or some other talking head in March instead of at the draft we're not even really discussing this pick. Mayock DID in fact validate the pick during his TV analysis by stating he came out to him late and was very impressed with what he saw. The group think (fans/other talking heads) simple didn't have enough time to mull over his accomplishments. Had they heard about his qualifications earlier I have no doubt that people would have been ok with his selection at 91.

Group think, run from it.

 

[mrscruff]

Very interesting interview for some very revealing info (and not just about Duron Harmon).

NFL Draft Player Spotlight: Duron Harmon, Rutgers 02/22 by playerspotlightshow | Blog Talk Radio

Whether you hate or like the pick, you can't help but be impressed by the young man.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Tavon Wilson II ~ The Revenge!!

It's gonna be amusing to watch In Bill We Trustees spin this one ~ as they spun the T Wilson Pick. :bricks:

Apparently, BB has become disenchanted with the Safeties produced with the usual criteria used to evaluate safeties. He used a modified one that includes and emphasizes leadership, communiction ability and smarts in setting the Defense as his revised criteria, perhaps at a sacrifice of some athletic credentials.

There were two Safeties drafted with prime physacal abilities Meriwether and Chung. There were three drafted with Belichick's revised criteria Two of the three are still on the Team and the third served well for a few seasons.

Sanders, Tavon Wilson, and now Duron Hamon are from the new school. The Prime physically athletic candidates are no longer with the team.

 

[Spiral]

My problem with the Patriot's draft philosophy is that they make a big issue out of not using any of the national scouting services, and grading players based on their own evaluation criteria.

The purpose of that approach should be to exploit inefficiencies in the grading process that (just about) everyone else uses. This doesn't mean that you are going to grade every player differently than everyone else. Teams generally have access to the same information. For the top 50-75 players, the Patriots' grades should be in the same ballpark as everyone else's, with most of the difference based on scheme fits. They should not be taking moonshots with picks in the first few rounds of the draft. Wilson and Harmon fall into that category. Let other teams make those mistakes.

The real objective should be to find players that are undervalued by the other scouting services and other teams, and to get these players cheap, i.e., in the later rounds of the draft or as UDFAs. Examples: Brandon Bolden, Alfonso Dennard, Justin Francis. It's important to have a good back end of the roster, for depth and salary cap reasons. However, if you keep missing with your second and third-round picks, you end up with a bunch of overachieving late-round draft picks and UDFAs. Kind of like our current defense.

 

[Nunchucks]

If he turns out to be as good as sanders, I would have zero complaints.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The real objective should be to find players that are undervalued by the other scouting services and other teams, and to get these players cheap, i.e., in the later rounds of the draft or as UDFAs. Examples: Brandon Bolden, Alfonso Dennard, Justin Francis. It's important to have a good back end of the roster, for depth and salary cap reasons. However, if you keep missing with your second and third-round picks, you end up with a bunch of overachieving late-round draft picks and UDFAs. Kind of like our current defense.

Seriously?

Pats starting defense:

Front 7
RDE Chandler Jones 1st Round
NT Vince Wilfork 1st Round
DT Tommy Kelly UDFA FA
LDE Rob Ninkovich 5th Round FA
OLB Jerrod Mayo 1st Round
MLB Brandon Spikes 2nd Round
OLB Dont'a Hightower 1st Round

Secondary
LCB Aqib Talib 1st round TRADE
RCB Alphonso Dennard 7th round
FS Devin McCourty 1st round
SS Adrian Wilson 3rd round FA

Nearly ALL of the Pats homegrown starters on defense are 1st/2nd round picks. The only exception is Dennard who was a 7th round steal who flashes talent equivalent to a 1st/2nd rounder. The rest are free agents. I count SIX 1st rounders on that defensive unit and EIGHT out of ELEVEN who were taken in the top THREE rounds of the draft.

PS As for Harmon? Sure he might be a bust. And he might be the next Stevan Ridley. I remember how much hatred was uncorked towards that kid on draft night. BUT he proved everyone of his HATERS wrong. A LOT of people here posted their 'disgust' that we 'wasted' a 3rd round on 'another RB'.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Apparently, BB has become disenchanted with the Safeties produced with the usual criteria used to evaluate safeties. He used a modified one that includes and emphasizes leadership, communiction ability and smarts in setting the Defense as his revised criteria, perhaps at a sacrifice of some athletic credentials.

There were two Safeties drafted with prime physacal abilities Meriwether and Chung. There were three drafted with Belichick's revised criteria Two of the three are still on the Team and the third served well for a few seasons.

Sanders, Tavon Wilson, and now Duron Hamon are from the new school. The Prime physically athletic candidates are no longer with the team.

Are you referring to James Sanders? Because he was drafted in 2005, well before Meriweather or Chung. Given that, I'm not entirely sure what kind of point you're trying to make.