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weird feeling about adam carriker

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by patsfan55, Mar 3, 2007.

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  1. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    why do i have a really strange feeling we might take carriker at 24?
    it would be pretty similar to when we took marquise hill knowing we didnt necessarily need him
    i guess it would at least give us insurance in case we didnt re-sign ty
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow, I thought something completely different from the thread title! :eek:
  3. notex

    notex Rookie

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    seems like a patriot type guy. we;ll see. could he potentially move to OLB..?
  4. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    no
    hes a perfect 3-4 defensive end
    which is kinda why i think we might take him
    finding those guys are not easy
  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He was compared to Seymour in one write-up I've read, that said; check out his numbers, they are better than many LBs in terms of change of direction and the 10 yd split. For further comparison, here are the numbers for Jarvis Green, Adalius Thomas' back-up who the Ravens just re-signed, and Dan Klecko who got a try out at LB, see how quick Carriker is compared to them? I wouldn't use Carriker to play man against the TE, but he looks like he could play some underneath zone. Seymour occasionally drops into a zone, I wouldn't be afraid to try Carriker alongside Warren on first and second down, or on goal line situations. A little creativity to put another big run stuffer who can also rush the passer. If the Ravens can use Johnson as an ILB, Carriker is worth a shot.

    Carriker, Adam 6-6 296 4.90/40, 2.81/20, 1.60/10, 33/225, 33 1/2"v, 9'2"b, 4.18ss, 7.06 3-c

    Green, Jarvis 6-3 272 4.87/40, 2.80/20, 1.76/10, 31"v, 9'1"b, 4.25ss, 7.52 3-c

    Johnson, Jarret 6-3 284 5.07/40, 2.96/20, 1.69/10, 21/225, 28 1/2"v, 8'11"b, 4.58ss, 7.72 3-c

    Klecko, Dan 6-0 283 4.94/40, 2.88/20, 1.71/10, 26/225, 33 1/2"v, 9'3"b. 4.43ss, 7.52 3-c
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I don't think there's any question we take him if he's there. I think the question is if he will be there. I could see him going as early as top 10, or as late as 24.

    If we do take him, look for us to trade former UDFA Mike Wright for a pretty good pick in 2008. Or possibly former fourth rounder Jarvis. Good returns on investments.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  7. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I agree, you can never have too much of a good thing. The way those big guys get banged up some extra, extra depth would be a nice luxury. He would be locked up for 5 years and would be at worst our 5th best DL and could challenge Green for #4.

    I would be very surprised if he lasts to 24, almost every team in the league can use a help on the D Line and he sounds like a terrific 3-4 end.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  8. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    just b/c he fits a 3-4 doesnt mean we want him..we have 1 pro bowler..1 borderline pro bowler and 1 guy who can start when asked to and play well

    why waste pick 24 on a DE honestly..its not like were set and have no glaring needs

    -WR
    -CB
    -S
    -LB

    are all needs

    signing Thomas doesnt change the need for LB..nope. Hes going to start..hes not replacing Bruschi..we need someone to replace Bruschi in future and Vrabel maybe..Thomas isnt young blood..we need 2-3 LBs in draft


    btw why would u be suprised to see Carriker fall to 24? Hes not a top 15 guy..hes a late 1st
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  9. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would not be remotely surprised by this first round:

    24 - DE Adam Carriker
    28 - OT Joe Staley
  10. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    J Johnson could make the switch to LB easier than Carriker.

    Only the Pats know the full extent of the damage to Kazcur's shoulder and O'Callaghan's neck.

    If either has a career threatening situation or lingering LT injury situation then it would be wise to take a replacement OT early in the draft. My choice is Ugoh of Arkansas. Pure road grader delux. Line up hopefully newly signed TE Brady on his side for additional pass protection duties. On running plays Ugoh and TE Brady on the end will spell serious room for Maroney.
  11. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Why would we switch Carriker to LB? He's a DE, even in the 3-4.

    I'm with you on Ugoh though. I don't think the Pats will go OT that early, but if so I hope he's the one.
  12. Box_O_Rocks

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    I like Ugoh's long term prospects just a shade more than Staley's, so either would be welcome as I see it.

    I'm curious as to why you thought Jarret Johnson could make the switch to LB easier than Carriker, other then the fact he has already done so for the Ravens? For myself, I don't see Carriker as a LB, from a Pats perspective he's a classic DE. In my own little HC/DC fantasy world, I wouldn't let that prevent me from giving him some reps at the ROLB position alongside Warren during mini and training camps just to see how he adjusted and if such a line-up could be incorporated as another situational wrinkle in the playbook. Heck, I'd even try Mike Wright at WILB, but then again, my multi-million dollar job isn't on the line. :D

    Getting back to draft discussions:

    Based on reporting to date, the Pats have picked up another all-weather LB to complement Vrabel, leaving them with a heady and solid starting foursome. They landed a veteran TE to shepherd Watson, Thomas, and Mills. They acquired a veteran utility back to join Faulk, Evans, Maroney, and Hill. They are making a play on a slot receiver/return-man which would cost them a second round pick, presumably this year's. They franchised the most attractive CB in Free Agency and low tendered a reserve S. Finally, they re-signed a reserve OG/OC and the aforementioned RB/FB/TE Evans.

    Assuming they do land the WR/PR/KR, they have one area of depth concern, LB. Every other position is stocked with a "Patriots'" standard degree of depth, experience, and talent, and can be further supplemented with veteran minimum Free Agents.

    The Pats are sitting at the end of round one with two firsts, and have a late third left in day one if they land Welker and give up this year's second. A conservative approach would be to pick through their day one board with the two first round picks and use the third round slot to grab whomever slides into third. A more aggresive approach might be to target a "presumably" elite prospect by bundling picks and moving up. Since this is a Carriker thread, I submit he appears to be the most elite prospect in terms of the Pats' presumed position values. Carriker has drawn one comparison to #6 overall pick Seymour, which could argue that he's also comparible to #13 overall pick Warren, and would be worth bundling both first round picks to land.

    Those of you feeling faint put your head between your knees and take deep breaths.

    I raise this scenerio because;
    A. 3-4 DL are extremely rare;
    B. Marquis Hill does not appear to be developing as we hoped.
    C. If this kid is comparable to Sey and Ty, then having him learning behind them and battling for playing time with Jarvis and Mike is a major plus for the long term health of the unit.
    D. The move doesn't hurt the opportunities to land one of the 250 lb mid-round LB prospects and/or 220 lb S prospects and/or one of BB's classic developmental CBs. Not with the Pats four day two picks, a late third, and potentially 3-4 comp picks.

    I note I am not alone in my questions about the relative strength of this draft class. Before Free Agency started I was looking at LB, S, CB, and RB as the areas I'd like to draft to improve depth and competition. Nothing has changed, I still see the mid-round and late day prospects offering the most value to be had in those areas (other then my desire to see presumed 2nd rounder Brian Leonard on the roster). With that perspective I'd be willing to gamble on a move up to land the best 3-4 DE prospect in this draft.

    Cry havoc and let slip the draftniks of war!
  13. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 Rookie

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    very interesting take.................

    Incidentally, how much would it cost them to move the 3rd rounder up to mid 2nd round according to the value chart?

    How much would it cost to move up in the 1st round to get say Carriker?
  14. Box_O_Rocks

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    Under the new CBA? Who knows what the actual cost would be, the draft value chart is a rough guideline, I believe the two firsts bundled together would roughly equal #8, but if they really did want to do something like this, they might trade up with the 'skins at #6 and get him there since people "mocking" the 'skins seem to feel their greatest need is to rebuild the D-line and MLB (and the 'skins only have one day one pick). Different mocks project them taking Gaines Adams, but is he that much better then an Anthony Spencer as an edge rusher? Others have mocked them taking Branch, but you could still get a big DT like Harrell or Tyler if you picked later. Harrell at least comes in with a reputation for leadership and toughness. If they wanted to wait and see if Carriker would slide past SF, then they could bundle the two firsts and try to get change back in a later round, or move a later round pick forward to 2008. Lots of ways to play the hand.

    C'mon P80, you should have a value chart linked by now...check out the Huddlereport.com and get out the calculator. ;)
  15. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    well if we're talking about moving that far up, how does Okoye project as a 3-4 DE?? Is height the only measurable he's lacking?

    If I'm the Pats, I only move up if it costs our third or fourth. I'm more or less resigned to missing out on Carriker. If we did get him, he probably understudies for two years then starts for Seymour (who gets traded/cut) or Warren (who leaves as a free agent).
  16. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 Rookie

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    I have it linked, just being lazy. :D It looks like it would cost us a 3rd, 4th and two of our 5th picks, just to move to around 60th overall. I'd rather stay in the 3rd round.

    If we moved up to the 6th, don't you think Landry would be the target?
  17. Box_O_Rocks

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    Okoye is an interesting project, and he could probably develop into an all-purpose DL in the 3-4 with his best position at NT. Where I would choose Carriker over him is partly the height, the principle reason is the difference in capabilities between Okoye and the next NT prospect on my shopping list, Paul Soliai of Utah. At 6'4" 344 Soliai has slightly better measurables, and is also a project after only two years at NT. People seem to think he'll be there in the 3rd. Okoye has the edge in age, he's still growing at 19, Soliai is older (23), but standard age for most draft prospects.

    Carriker might have been challenged by Justin Harrell of Tennessee if Harrell had stayed helthy, but he didn't and while he's attractive in the second, his measurables aren't close to Carriker's and we have a senior year on tape for Carrike, not to mention his dominance in Mobile. If I'm going to move up, I don't want a project like Okoye, that's why Carriker would be my target.
    What is the difference in capabilities between a Landry and a Piscatelli or a Wendling? I would argue the difference between the 1st round and the 3rd/4th round Safeties is not as great as the difference between a 1st round 3-4 DL and one from the later rounds.
  18. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    All this stuff can make your head spin, I think 6 is too high for Carriker although I do like his potential. The ony way I could see them trading into the top 6-8 is if one of the studs (Johnson, Joe Thomas, slide). Also the top part of the draft becomes a little bit cost prohibitive.

    Without a 2nd round pick they lose some ability to trade up a few slots, of anything I expect them to trade back for a 2nd and 3rd or try to flip the pick for a 1st rounder next year.

  19. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    God, I love it when you talk like that!:D
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