Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Oct 8, 2007.
Haha funny thing is no one cares anymore. It's falling on deaf ears Peter. Even the jealous rivals are sick of hearing it.
These guys just continue to beat poor Mr. Ed over and over again!
...or maybe it's the fact that as a reporter you feel that it's up to everyone else to help you do your job.
Obviously, the League cannot do justice to this issue without a full rectal exam of EVERY team. They just cannot use this one incident to do a full colonoscopy of the Patriots alone without looking under the hood of every operation. The questions may linger, but that is the fault of a neophyte Commish incapable of navigating the political nuances of issues like this. They successfully painted the Pats with their broad brush, allowing rivals to take their shots, and now this taint will hover over the team until they obliterate it with a successful SB run. Only then will the taping "scandal" be shown for the non-issue that it is. Won't Goodell look like an ***** handing the trophy to BK with BB smiling on in the background? Yes, and it's his own fault.
Let Peter King cry about this all year. Boo Hoo Peter, join wRONg Bore-ges in paranoiaville.
BTW, I think it's great that BB has yet to offer them (reporters) any sound bites that can be used against him. That MUST burn them to no end. It makes me respect BB all the more.
Peter King needs to let it go. However, it doesn't stop him from ranking the Pats #1 in his top 15 teams.
BB is absolutely right not to say anything.
Whatever he says will be scrutinized and twisted
so the haters will have more to say about what he says.
They want BB to squirm. He won't. That pisses the vultures off. Good.
BB owes King or anybody else nothing more. He's already given up a draft pick and whole bunch of cash.
What does King expect is going to happen if BB explains anything?
These pri*ks won't be satisfied until the league just dissolves the franchise.
SCREW THEM ALL.
I totally agree...PK is barking up the wrong tree..and saying dumb things. Why doesn't the league look at EVERY team now?? And PJ, what about the allegations of some teams being able to get chat to the QB within the 15 black out time? Isn't THAT a FAR WORSE offense?? But then again..the Pats were not impliacted in that so it REALLY doesn't matter..what a bag of crap he is..yes, the Commish made all this a mess...and he wanted to bail out quick...easy..I think he realized how he bungled it all and wanted to move on quick. Well Peter..why is it SOME cheaters do not interest you?? Fair??
Maybe that club official thinks its best if spygate went away because said club official knows the pats arent the only team doing this and the deeper into the pats you look the more and more stories of other teams will start to come out making the entire league look like a joke. Bet Peter didnt think of that. He said its best for everyone in the entire league if it went away. If the Pats were the only team it wouldnt be good for the entire league to end it. Jeez Peter actually think about what the guy said.
I have to agree that the anonymous comment had to illude to there being more teams that would be outed at doing things like this rather than there just being more dirt on the Pats exposed. The Pats being exposed as cheating more would hurt the Pats a lot and the league some, but the only way everyone in the league wants this to go away is if it is known that cheating like this is prevalent in the league and a further investigation would rip the lid off the whole thing.
If Belichick owes an explaination of what was found, every team in the league needs to be investigated and tell the public what was found too. I'm sorry, but anything beyond the Jets game is just a witch hunt. Peter King and the press don't want it to die because they have hopes of being the Woodward and Bernstein of the sports world.
Where was King when the Broncos and 49ers were caught red handed cheating with their salary caps? Why wasn't he asking for further investigations with them. I don't know. Being able to resign Elway without cutting a key player or two by playing games with Elway's contract has a far more tangible affect on the Broncos than Belichick videotaping the signals of opposing DCs for future reference. I have read Peter King for years and I can't remember him being nearly as outraged by the Broncos or 49ers cheating the cap which is arguably worse than what the Pats did.
Not only that, but what about the allegations that were in the Sando column about teams overriding the 15 second QB blackout? THAT is far worse and obviously since it's going on, a bigger story...so IF he was clearly interested in cheating, his outrage would be just as much for each of these stories. one wonders when there is less outrage at these OTHER ways of cheating. Speaks volumes of what PK is about.
I agree it's best for everyone if the story just goes away. Because it's a stupid story. Because it gives the media a chance to repeat any silly little thing they want. And because other teams, like the Colts, do similar things.
Peter - let it go away just like your guy said.
I'd say it's even worse in King's case. His actions in keeping this non-story alive speak volumes towards is petulance and inflated ego.
King's stature as a sports writer has given him an inflated sense of his self-worth and his place in the sports world. I honestly believe that HE believes that it is HIS RIGHT to know every detail about what happened so that he may pontificate to the masses about the whole situation.
The man is simply p!ssed off that no one will give him the details. He feels insulted by the league's actions, and he's hoping that his constant picking at that scab will eventually force someone in the front office to 'come clean" about it.
What a maroon. Between his pontificating on coffee, travel delays, his daughter, local resturaunts, trains to NYC, baseball and veiled political swipes, it's a wonder he has any time left for sports writing. Oh wait... he doesn't.
I agree with Peter King on this and I don't understand why all Patriots fans apparently don't feel the same way. I guess some of you guys don't care about losing a first-round draft choice or the fact that other teams (and their fans) will continue to question the validity of the Patriots' SuperBowl victories.
It's all very good to wish the incident would go away but it's not going to, unless you are 1.) content to lose a first round draft choice and 2.) content to let people call the Patriots' SuperBowl victories "tainted" because they might have "cheated."
The league office bungled the whole incident.
They rushed to judgment in penalizing the Patriots' in the first place. What was the hurry? It's actually hard to believe that they acted as quickly as they did. Why not let the controversy die down a little and then, if it's really that big a deal, impose the fines they imposed?
Then they rushed to destroy the "evidence" - whatever it was. No word on what was destroyed. I've said this before: was it 3 pages of notes and 15 minutes of video or 1,000 pages of notes and 1,000 hours of video? Why destroy it?
I also do not understand why Patriots fans are content to let Belichick refuse to comment on the whole incident. How about he just said, "yeah, I knew it was against the rules but I didn't think the penalty would be so severe, if we got caught." I would be fine with that, or any number of other "explanations."
have you not heard just about every retired coach say this goes on everywhere and that it was not much help. jimmy johnson said when he did it he thought it was a waste of time. as far as belichick comments, he admitting to doing it and apologized, what more do you want. he's not going to come out and say everyone does it and throw his fellow coaches under the bus. i'm sure there's other teams he could bust on a myriad of spying "events".
Everybody does what exactly? Everybody has some kid videotape the defensive coaches on the opposite bench?
I don't understand this "everybody does it" angle anyway. It seems to me to be completely beside the point, and I can't even figure out what the "IT" refers to.
I think Belichick could elaborate on whatever he did. Why he did it. He apologized for something, but I don't know what.
Because instead of this quote:
agenda-driven writers would only quote:
and would use it to paint BB as a <insert your villifying adjectives here> cheater, rather than acknowlege that everyone steals signals and BB's 'crime' was more the method used than the actual stealing of the signals.
if you don't know what "IT" is or why belichick apologized, then why do you care ?
Hmmnn... why do I care? well let's see, I care because I am fan of the New England Patriots and they lost a first-round draft pick over absolutely nothing?
Am I supposed to explain why I care about the Patriots? Yes, okay, I admit, it's all a ridiculous waste of time, following football. Why are you on this message board?
Belichick and the Pats were punished for what they did in the Jets game and for everything that was in the tapes the team turned over to the league. That is a point that many fans and media people missed is that Goodell already took into effect of what was on all the tapes in his punishment because the Pats told him what was on them before he made his decision. The Pats have been levied the worst punishment any team has ever be punished.
I don't need an explaination from Belichick to move beyond this. He has been punished. If he comments any further it will only re-open the wound even further and have all the analysts dissecting all his comments. All you have do is look at Bill Clinton's definition of sex to see what could happen to Belichick if he talked about this further.
As for the rush to destroy evidence, I would rather have them rushing to destroy it that it being leaked to Jay Glazier again and allowing the media to go through thousands of hours of tape to find 15 seconds that might be incriminating.
If guys like Jimmy Johnson, Jon Gruden, and others including Peter King weren't saying that what the Pats did was not something that happens a lot throughout the league, I would be more interested in what was found. But the only difference between the Pats and a bunch of other teams was that they were caught. I don't think it is fair to continue to persecute the Pats for something that other teams were openly doing too, but just weren't caught. If the Pats were the only ones doing things like this, then it would be fair. But by most accounts, they aren't.
yes, everybody "steals signals" - that's part of the game - something you are supposed to do. it's why they have signals in the first place, and don't just announce on the public address system "the defense will be executing a safety blitz on this play."
I am very disappointed that the Patriots didn't protest this more.
I'm sorry, but that's not an explanation, that's a soundbite. I agree with you in that I would like for the NFL to clarify just what it was that was on those tapes, but mostly because I'm sick of people implying that there was "cheating" in the Super Bowls and that those wins are tainted. Belichick doesn't have to say any more than what he said unless there is something different that comes out.
But this is the way I reason why the Commish's office has nothing more to say about the matter than that everything was destroyed. The league offices ruled that the film of the Jets on 9/9 was not used to gain an advantage during the game. The punishment they issued was for violating the rule about filming on the sidelines, to dissuade others from using the cameras on the sideline as well (and even actually using those tapes in game). They punished the Pats for that offense and collected all the tapes Belichick had from the beginning of his coaching career here. If those tapes had nothing other than more filming of the same things, no explanation is needed; no further punishment is necessary. Thus, the lack of an explanation.
Why is it besides the point? So it is fair to continue to persecute the Patriots because they were the only one caught doing something that is done frequently and is known to be done, but weren't exposed because they didn't get caught by their hated rivals.
Why should what the Pats did in other games that what they got caught doing have any relevance to anything? The Pats were only caught for the Jets game and anything else turned over to the league is not relevant and exposing it without doing the same thing to the 31 other teams is just a witch hunt.
The Pats voluntarily turned over this information to the league and could have easily fought this in court if they wished and won pretty easily. They agreed to turn it over to put this to bed and under the condition the evidence would be destroyed so it wouldn't be leaked. It is over now. Move on.
The Pats agreed that it was best for the game not to start to point fingers everywhere. Kraft knows that it doesn't do the league any good by exposing other teams for doing the same or similiar things as the Patriots. He agreed to cooperate to put the whole issue to bed and do what is best for the team.
If Kraft was interested in trying to fight this, he would have gone to court to prevent them from getting any evidence from them including the tape confiscated from Matt Estrella. He took one for the league.
All this snipet proves is it's a waste of time to talk to Peter because his own opinion renders his ability to grasp to what you are saying moot.
Hey, for all we know Bill had the video department consolidate the tapes so they included evidence Bill also compiled of opponents doing the same damn thing or snipets of interviews with players we have in confirming that they had benefitted from audio and video shenanigans when they played against us.
Collinsworth may be right that half the league is aghast at what we were doing, but the other half is likely scared ****less that a wider investigation could wipe out half of the first round of the 2008 draft. Goodell isn't interested in cleaning out the house, he just intended for us to serve as a cease and desist order for all 32 teams going forward. Those who want more care less about the league than they do about settling longstanding vendettas or uncovering a ratings bonanza that makes their jobs easier.
The media have no clue that the fans hate them!
You are *really* rocking today MO. Could you forward this post to Dale and Holly so that when they have Peter King on they can call him out on this?
Cousins (and to you Mr. King of the inquiring mind!),
What the naive Mr. King may not realize is that perhaps the league DID find out something in those tapes, which curiously seemed like BB was more than happy to cooperate with. Why did BB even keep those old tapes if it is the opinion of the league coaches that the signals are changed on a weekly basis anyway. What good are they? Maybe the tapes were destroyed because the Pats had some disturbing items on the tapes that would have led to more of a scandal about other teams and their practices than what Goodell even dreamed about.
I still believe that BB had something figured out and had an "insurance policy". That "insurance policy" was destroyed by Goodell.
Why would BB "blatantly" not conform to a league "memo" that was distributed in such a short order to the "crime". Why indeed to all you "cheater" accusers? Is BB stupid? Is he not one to attend to the smallest detail?
BB said he interpreted the rules a different way. We'll never know what he saw in the rules but I will guarantee there was a logical explanation for someone as intelligent as Mr. BB. You know he will not elaborate. His desire is just to go on. He did not drag other people down with him and we know he could have. Was this simply the theory of "It is easier to ask forgiveness than permission"?
Goodell came out along with the NFL and declared that there was nothing on those tapes to implicate the Pats in any other wrong doing, but nothing was said about the other 31 teams and the tapes were destroyed at "warp speed". Perhaps I am looking at this cynically, but if "no harm, no foul" was the case it arched my eyebrows. This was made out to be a bigger case than the Lindberg kidnapping and yet not one snippet was commented on about the details of these NFL "porn" movies? Hell, Goodells' wifes couldn't even get it out of him this time. Something big was up Mr. King and you are barking up the wrong tree. I say Goodell cut a deal with Kraft when the tapes were presented and viewed. Kraft first said he was furious then he backed off and accepted the penalty for the good of the league. I say BB had the goods on someone or many, and there was a tussle with Kraft interceding and telling BB to back off.
How many of the cousins out there believe that BB would not do this without reason or recourse? Mr King you should be the first yea voter! There is a much bigger cover up that was swept under the carpet and the BB made the perfect sacrifice being he is hated for his cold and no nonsense success by every non-Pats fan in the world, but every owner in the league (all 31) including the owners that employee Mr. Dungy would swap for BB right now. Goodells' thoughts were perhaps who else could have this roll off his back and who cares less about his own ego as any coach in the NFL? All he wants is to coach the perfect game.
Oh Yeh, Mr. Colinsworth, you as an attorney should do more due-diligence about how and why BB did this, what was on the tapes (supena Goodell for cryin out loud) and then judge if this was "Worse than Vick or Pacman". As far as I know, no living beings have ceased to exist with this over publicized common place (emphasize this) rules infraction.
As the Good Reverend Mr. Dungy stated about how this Pats thing really hurt the integrity of the game and yet his GM advocated persons on the Pats have their legs broken by some of the 53 Colts Apostles, and "Oh, by the way Tony I changed the game so we can win it this time" through my position on the NFL rules committee. Tony has to remove the "log" from his eye.
i'm guessing this is a rhetorical question. as far as the pats getting fined for nothing, i don't get your confusion. they were fined for having a camera on the sideline instead of in the designated area. it's that simple. they were taping where they shouldn't have been taping. the pats were used as an example to teams that are doing the same thing. now everybody knows the cost.
I'm a little perplexed about why Peter King (and many others) have such difficulty grasping that the advantage gained by the Patriots by the taping was minimal (i.e. over other, legal ways, of stealing signs).
But, I guess he can continue to be dense about this if he wants. Perhaps after all this time he still hasn't really thought it all through?
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