Week 7: Pats win, but what about the defense?

[Ifleninwasawizard]

Front 7 is really good and we are fantastic against the run. But this is purely based on the SKILL and the mold of our front 7 and NOT at all attributed to our defensive scheming. Why are they even allowing Spikes to drop back in coverage? That should be a crime. For one he can't cover receivers, that is not his skillset and he is not fast enough. He should always go after the QB and RB THAT IS IT. He can absolutely help bring the inside heat.

You seem to be forgetting Spikes INT in the AFC championship game. I think he's shown that he can be competent and even make plays back there. That's not to say he should play 3 downs all the time or anything, there's a reason why we got Hightower. All I'm saying is that you don't want to make a player more predictable than they have to be.

 

[nekromantique]

i enjoy the combination of cunningham at DE and ninkovich at OLB. i think it should be this way in nickel or 3rd down situations (nink would replace spikes and hightower would slide to MLB or would be off for the nickelback)

thankfully as Hightower still recovers, well probably see it again.

 

[nekromantique]

MCcourty as a rookie was primarily playing Zone and he was tremendous.....something happened to his talents.

hes probably still better in zone than man. and he wasnt a problem at safety today (he didnt really gamble on big plays/breakups, but he kept pretty much everything in front of him).

sadly, hes probably our best safety, and our best CB...which poses a bit of a problem as to where you line him up. id like to see arrington at safety for a game just to guage how he plays there, because id rather the cb lineup be mccourty, dennard, dowling.

 

[condon84]

"he who dares wins....
---British SAS motto

Something the Pats coaching staff apparently find unacceptable. No imagination, no creativity. 3 years and running now.

BB is a defensive guru. But at some point like Bill Walsh said, even the best coaches get tuned out after a while. At some point BB will get tuned out, is this what's going on with our defense?

 

[furry]

the front 7 is amazing and after watching this game I have come to the conclution that Man to Man is the best way for the secondary to play they are truly horrid in zone

Amazing, really?

An amazing front 7 gets pressure from 3 or 4 man rushes. For the most part yesterday he had all the time in the world to throw the ball. He made some good throws, and other times we gave him easy throws

An amazing front 7 doesn't make Sanchez look like Brees

As I see it Hill catches that ball they'd have nailed 7 on again and we were done.

 

[furry]

Given what we've seen.....

Start Wilson and McCourty at safety
Start Dowling and Dennard at CB
Let Arrington play the slot

Go with it and see what happens against the Rams. I'm not thrilled with McCourty as a safety, but nothing else is working.

Is this with a fit Chung & Gregory or without?

I still think Chung plays when able, even with his dodgy approach angle issues his run stopping is worth having him in there esp against Jackson next week

 

[Deus Irae]

Is this with a fit Chung & Gregory or without?

I still think Chung plays when able, even with his dodgy approach angle issues his run stopping is worth having him in there esp against Jackson next week

Chung and Gregory can fight it out for the S3 role.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I don't think we're struggling for talent, we need to start questioning philosophy. Belichick is playing his usual 'rush three or four and confuse the QB with coverage schemes'. Wilfork and Love have been dire at pushing the pocket...yes dire...and tQBs are having time and the ability to step in to their throws on a consistent basis.

Take the completion against Arrington in OT just before the fumble. That wasn't bad coverage. That was a very good throw into a tight window. The issue was the fact he was comfortable, had too much time and he could step into his throw.

Ninkovich, whilst showing up on occasion with the big play, has been terrible rushing the passer. Wilfork and Love just as bad if not worse. Chandler Jones is on his own.

This D Line is terrible when they aren't defending the run. This is why we're making average QBs look good. They have too much time and too clean a pocket. Whenever we get pressure off of the edges it seems like QBs have a mile of space to step up in to the pocket.

 

[JoeShmoe]

I don't think we're struggling for talent, we need to start questioning philosophy. Belichick is playing his usual 'rush three or four and confuse the QB with coverage schemes'. Wilfork and Love have been dire at pushing the pocket...yes dire...and tQBs are having time and the ability to step in to their throws on a consistent basis.

Take the completion against Arrington in OT just before the fumble. That wasn't bad coverage. That was a very good throw into a tight window. The issue was the fact he was comfortable, had too much time and he could step into his throw.

Ninkovich, whilst showing up on occasion with the big play, has been terrible rushing the passer. Wilfork and Love just as bad if not worse. Chandler Jones is on his own.

This D Line is terrible when they aren't defending the run. This is why we're making average QBs look good. They have too much time and too clean a pocket. Whenever we get pressure off of the edges it seems like QBs have a mile of space to step up in to the pocket.

I'd agree with this - Aside from Jones there is absolutely nothing from the D-Line

Our secondary has been poor overall though- if anything it looked better today as I think McCourty can actually cover unlike Chung. I like Dowling and Dennard has potential

I dont know where any scheming has gone though, very little blitzing or disguised looks or moving players around

 

[PatsSox363804]

At this point I want them to send a linebacker or a corner on a blitz every play just try to and get a few errant throws. Right now we aren't confusing anyone, and we're already giving up more big plays than I thought was humanly possible so screw it, just send people in and see what happens.

 

[slash83]

The truth is it sucks and it isn't going to get better.

 

[Rob0729]

The truth is it sucks and it isn't going to get better.

Why won't it get better? The Pats were down two starters in the secondary. And historically, the Pats' defense always gets better as the year goes along. It may not get to be a good pass defense, but it could get significantly better.

 

[Kontradiction]

Why won't it get better? The Pats were down two starters in the secondary. And historically, the Pats' defense always gets better as the year goes along. It may not get to be a good pass defense, but it could get significantly better.

The secondary is not going to get better. They are what they are. But the front seven most certainly can...

 

[Kontradiction]

Given what we've seen.....

Start Wilson and McCourty at safety
Start Dowling and Dennard at CB
Let Arrington play the slot

Go with it and see what happens against the Rams. I'm not thrilled with McCourty as a safety, but nothing else is working.

This is what the Patriots implemented late in the 4th quarter and in overtime yesterday, correct? If so, sign me up. It wasn't the most solid rotation in the secondary, but at least it gave Sanchez a second of pause.

 

[slash83]

Why won't it get better? The Pats were down two starters in the secondary. And historically, the Pats' defense always gets better as the year goes along. It may not get to be a good pass defense, but it could get significantly better.

I get what your saying but sorry just don't see it happening as bad as they've been in recent weeks. Yeah their missing starters but I have a hard time calling those 2 players starting caliber NFL players.

 

[Rob0729]

The secondary is not going to get better. They are what they are. But the front seven most certainly can...

Didn't we say the same thing last year.

Dennard is a rookie in his second game. You saying he already hit his ceiling? Gregory will return. So will Chung. They aren't great, but will help the secondary. Dowling might be finally getting healthy and might get better too.

They are still experimenting with line ups and schemes. This defense and secondary could get significantly better over the season (that doesn't mean they will ever get to be good). It could get worse. It is foolish to say it is never going to get any better.

Matt Chatham was on the radio last night and said they are doing a lot things different yesterday than they did last week including far more man press coverage. That means they are trying to fix things. They could find a formula that works.

 

[Rob0729]

I get what your saying but sorry just don't see it happening as bad as they've been in recent weeks. Yeah their missing starters but I have a hard time calling those 2 players starting caliber NFL players.

Never said that Gregory and Chung are good. Although Gregory might be good once he gets acclimated to the defense. But there are a lot of young players (Dennard is in his second start of his career) and moving parts right now. They are changing the starting line up week to week and secondaries need continuity just like o-lines.

Again, I don't think the secondary will ever be good this year, but it could be significantly better come December than it is right now.

 

[slash83]

Never said that Gregory and Chung are good. Although Gregory might be good once he gets acclimated to the defense. But there are a lot of young players (Dennard is in his second start of his career) and moving parts right now. They are changing the starting line up week to week and secondaries need continuity just like o-lines.

Again, I don't think the secondary will ever be good this year, but it could be significantly better come December than it is right now.

I hope your right, honestly. I'll take any sort of improvement from the secondary. It almost amazes me how bad they are when the front 7 is constantly shutting down the run game and putting them in favorable 3rd downs. I hope Dmc goes back to corner when Chung or Gregory get back, I actually thought he was playing really good football.

 

[Rob0729]

I hope your right, honestly. I'll take any sort of improvement from the secondary. It almost amazes me how bad they are when the front 7 is constantly shutting down the run game and putting them in favorable 3rd downs. I hope Dmc goes back to corner when Chung or Gregory get back, I actually thought he was playing really good football.

I agree about McCourty. All his bashers said he needed to move to safety, but we saw what type of a downgrade at CB the Pats have when he isn't at LCB. With McCourty at safety yesterday, the Pats had three starting positions weakened in the secondary (although MCourty might have been an upgrade at FS).

Personally, I think they should try to move Dowling to safety. And of course, moving Arrington off the field to the bench would be a good move too.

 

[IllegalContact]

This is what the Patriots implemented late in the 4th quarter and in overtime yesterday, correct? If so, sign me up. It wasn't the most solid rotation in the secondary, but at least it gave Sanchez a second of pause.

based on media writings, the majority of snaps were made with:
- mccourty and wilson at safety
- dennard and arrington at corner
- dowling and moore as nickle and dime

and that's the way it stayed the entire game.

I would be hopeful that things would improve, but I don't like the small and slow approach........