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Week 5 Thoughts: Can 17 Point Wins be Ugly?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Oswlek, Oct 8, 2007.

  1. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Yes, I know, the title is a little misleading. "Ugly" isn't exactly the best descriptor, but NE certainly played poorly at times yesterday and were mediocre overall. What must be noted, however, is that these guys are human. They were winning 20-0 against a decent team at halftime after a short week with a big matchup on the horizon. A letdown, whle certainly not encouraged, is understandable.

    On to the thoughts:

    * Who invited the 2003 offensive line? Despite Morris' game ending stats, I wasn't all that impressed with the run blocking. Brady had all sorts of time, however. I am not intelligent enough to say exactly why, but the absence of Koppen was definitely noticable.

    * This was the second straight game that NE's offense was a little rough around the edges. What is a little disconcerting is the fact that the approach of both teams was entirely predictible; double Moss and Welker and let everyone else beat you. Yes, I know that NE scored 34 and 27 offensive points in those games which is about the same as their average the first couple weeks, but the offense just looked unstoppable the first two weeks. The past two weeks they look like one of the better offenses in the league, rather than one of the best offenses ever. Yes, I know that expecting historical greatness every week is a tad absurd, but I these guys are that good. They should be held to that standard.

    * Further along those lines, here are some stats from Cleveland's defense that I looked up.

    Opponent / 3 & Outs / Punts

    Pitt / 5 / 6
    Cincy / 2 / 3
    Oak / 1 / 3
    Balt / 0 / 0
    NE / 3 / 6

    This is what I am saying. NE faced a defense that had forced one 3 & Out per game and 2 punts per game over the past three weeks. They trippled that output against a NE offense that should be considered significantly better than any of those prior ones. Some of that has to be considered good defense - the coverage on Moss was exceptional - but a lot of it is NE mistakes. What came over Brady in that 3rd quarter is beyond me because he must have missed 3 open guys by at least 5 yards.

    * The defense played well for the most part. Cleveland's offense is actually respectable and I view them as an up-and-comer like Cincy of a couple years back. The one issue that I harp on regularly and I will say again - I want to see a more consistent pass rush. Oddly enough, most of the pressure that I have seen has been due to great secondary coverage, which is the opposite of the prevailing thought. I will conceed that it could be a function of NE's defense because they seem to generate ridiculous pressure with a late lead.

    * I was very disappointed in Stallworth's drop. Partly this was due to the fact that he proabably had another TD but mostly because Donte isn't known for having the best hands.

    * No surprise, but Rodney was kind of a non-factor. That said, I almost shat my pants when Rodney landed after that int attempt. He will be an important part of this team, he just needs to get back into rhythm.

    * Alright, enough with the negativity. They won, didn't they? Watson was unbelievable. Frankly, if anything, I'm surprised that they didn't go to him more. That part of the offense worked to perfection. You just can't double everyone.

    * Moss' first catch didn't get the attention that it deserved. You really can't cover a guy much better than that, but Moss used his amazing ability to delay going for the ball until the last second. Most WRs - even the good ones - would have tried to slow down their route and shielded the DB with their body. Moss realize the best chance was to just keep running and at the last second hop back and catch in on his back shoulder. Great play.

    * I finally got around to reading the Sunday Sports section this morning and saw that Denver was favored by a point. Favored? Sure SD has looked medicore, but Denver has looked terrible. I swear on my life that I would have said the same thing prior to the game. Denver had no chance in that game.

    * Listening to WEEI this morning, they were talking about the Trent Green play, chiding the use of the QB as a blocker. They even said how dumb they thought Brady blocking yesterday was. Don't these guys watch the game? QB's almost always are a sealing blocker on end arounds and reverses. It is what it is. Frankly, Brady has actually said in the past how much he enjoys giving someone else a shot.

    On to Dallas. Despite NE's worst performance of the year so far, I am extremely confident going into this game. NE has a penchant for having a surprisingly dominant performance after a down week. I won't list them all, but NE's top three win margins last year all happened after losses. They also had two other blowouts (the Jet game I count because they were getting killed before having 2 fluke plays go their way) after close wins. In 2004 NE killed the Jets and StL the week after their two losses. In 2003 NE dominated two playoff teams after their early losses and after barely beating Houston rolled up a quick 31-10 lead against a 7-2 Indy team. Of the games I just mentioned, all but 2 (of 10) were on the road. Needless to say, NE's past history gives me confidence to say that they will play much better this week. ;)

    As always, I welcome your thoughts.
     
  2. Fahrenhype

    Fahrenhype Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    It was an ugly win if only for the fact that with all the turnovers they forced they were still only up by ten points for a lot of the second half. Yeah it may sound stupid to say "they should be winning by more" at any point in the game but with how lousy the offense was in the third quarter, the game could have ended up being any closer.

    It was a win that shows them they still got plenty to improve on, and that the offense can still get the job done when a defense finally commits to making Moss a non-factor. I knew Stallworth would show up as soon as people started taking Moss seriously, and Ben Watson looks to have improved his pass catching immensely. He dropped a lot of catchable passes last year which was frustrating combined with the lack of talent at receiver. This year he's pulling in almost everything, and he is just one of many weapons in the passing attack.

    I'm just glad ADT's injury wasn't serious, it would have been rough going into Dallas next week without him.
     
  3. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    #12 Jersey

    It's good in a way, because this team needs to keep focused. Ever since I read Brady's remarks in how hard it is to recover from a Sunday night game, I've been dreading the games after night games. I expected a down performance, but I thought some of the dropped passes (particularly Donte's) were inexcusable. And whatever happened to Brady in the 3rd quarter....well, that just can't happen against Indy or Dallas.

    I did have to laugh when I saw BB's somber press conference. It's exactly what this team needs....frankly, it's hard to drum up a sense of urgency after a 17 point win, but they've got to.
     
  4. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I forgot about that. When I saw him walk off, it looked very serious, but I was a little more positive when I saw the replay. The contact was dead on and the leg didn't bend in a disastrous manner so it seemed that there was almost no possibility of a season ending injury. I still didn't expect him back in the next series, though.
     
  5. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

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    Interesting stats there about the 3&outs.

    On the one hand, this game was quite close to be a vicious beating. On 3 red zone opportunities, the Pats had only 6 points, if they are their normally efficient self, they turn that into 21 points. Add on top of that the ball Stallworth dropped that likely would've led to a TD (so much open field in front of him), that's 28 points that poor execution cost them.

    On the other hand, something did seem off with the offense, and for the second straight week, it looked like either the opposing team was slightly better at curbing the Patriots beating. Now, that's kind of like saying that instead of getting run over by a 16 wheeler, you were hit by a nice 4x4. It's a beating either way, and even in what we're calling "down weeks", the Patriots offense has been lethal the past two weeks. Still, there is room for improvement.

    I agree with what someone else said in another thread, I want to see more Welker.

    And, in addition to the slightly weaker execution, I also thought the game plan was a little more vanilla yesterday than in the past weeks. Maybe the short week coming off of MNF limited what they could work on in practice, maybe rthey simply didn't want to show off stuff against the Browns that they'd like to use against Dallas. I'm not sure. They have used a lot of 3-wide packages all year, and they continued yesterday, but to me, it seemed not to come as easy as it had in past games.

    3-wide 1 TE sets:

    vs. Bengals: 26
    vs. Bills: 47
    vs. Chargers: 23
    vs. Jets: 8

    Hmm, not totally sure what to make of this or my feeling yesterday that they held back offensively.
     
  6. tombonneau

    tombonneau In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's nice to be this spoiled. :)

    We seem to forget that if the offense kept up this pace it would shatter just about every offensive NFL record, for both teams and players. So they had to slow down eventually.

    And it's not like by "slow down" they scored 17 point. This is still a top offense.

    As far the game, it was ugly at times, but it was nice in that it was a wake up call of sorts that will keep the team focused. The coaching staff gets to have their cake and eat it too; get another W in a 17-pt win, but still tear into the team and show areas where they need to improve.
     
  7. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    one must remember- this is still a NEW offense in terms of personnel. Sure they have been great first 2 weeks but i think it was an aberration albeit a little. Last 2 weeks are more like a team which has a new offense which frankly is good enough. I expect them to be better as the season goes on.
     
  8. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was ugly, first time all year the team didn't show a killer instinct and put the opponent out of its misery. What can we say? Welcome to the NFL, it is damn hard to win games in this league.

    The OLine had another great game, Brady was too focused on getting the ball to Moss. When he looked else where Watson was wide open in the seams.

    Morris seemed to run our of steam, hopefully Maroney can come back and provide a spark against Dallas.

    Colvin looked terrible, he missed at least 3-4 tackles. I know he was banged up but he still has to wrap up.

    Samuel versus Wilfork - Believe it or not when Samuel got plowed by Wilfork, Samuel go the worst of it... go figure.. By my math Samuel gives up at least 150 pounds to big Vince.

    #84 block on Bruschi - 84 (Jurevicius) cleaned Bruschi clock, it seemed to fire old #54 up, he played pretty well the rest of the game. Anyone else still a little nervous about Gonzales and Clark versus our ILB and Safeties?

    It is 'game on' now, all teams are banged up and it is starting to become survival of the fittest. Should be a fun game against big D.

    How about them Red Sox!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
  9. Nordy

    Nordy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Having 37 year old scrambled eggs for brains Trent Green trying to block a 320 pound nose tackle like that is just stupid. How would you feel if Brady was in the open field trying to block a running Wilfork? I bet you wouldn't be too fond of that.
     
  10. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Brady regularly blocks on end arounds. Admittedly, Miami might have thought differently due to their QBs concussion history, but Brady is a regular blocker on end arounds and reverses.
     
  11. Nordy

    Nordy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    You didn't answer my question. How would you feel about Brady blocking a running Wilfork? I certainly wouldn't like it.
     
  12. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you watch any smart QB they merely get in the way or annoy the defender, they don't exactly try to man up against a D lineman. From what I saw Green pissed his pants, saw his life flash in front of his eyes, cried for mommy and then went low. The going low part while legal looked much worse than the hit Wade threw on Harrison last year. Johnson had every right to be upset.
     
  13. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The game certainly was closer than 17 points and if not for the Gay play would have been.

    Against a better team this could have been a loss...that said....

    Brady posted 5 games where his QB rating was higher than 100 last year, none in the first 5 games where his highest was 91.2 vs Miami.

    This was his lowest at 105 for this year and he missed Moss several times when he was wide open or it would have been a lot higher. Stallworth dropped a 3rd down catch that might have been a TD, worse case it's a 30+ yard gain.

    With all those screw-ups they still beat a decent team by 17 with no Maroney, Koppen, or Seymour and Harrison is still rounding into form. Plus a Romeo team is always going to play them tough because he has some insight into their plans.

    Also better to be a little off vs the Browns than next week vs Dallas.

    I think there will be extra helping of humble pie going around this week.
     
  14. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What question? You are being completely illogical. You are asking a theoretical question about an event that just haoppened yesterday.
     
  15. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Brady made a similar block against a TN DL in the playoff game in 2003 when Bethel reversed field. The prevailing thought was that it was a gret play.
     
  16. Nordy

    Nordy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Once again you're avoiding the question, and I am in no way being illogical. Here's the question: How would you feel about Brady blocking a 330 pound NT running across the field?
     
  17. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I feel fine. He blocked a guy yesterday. He blocks regularly on end arounds.

    You are being illogical. Let me ask you. If you are so passionate about this subject, where is your thread taking NE to task for having Brady block yesterday?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
  18. Nordy

    Nordy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Where are you getting this illogical stuff? There's nothing illogical about not wanting your QB to take on NTs in the open field. And there's a difference between just getting in someone's way and actually trying to put a hard block on them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
  19. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    When did I say that I think that it is a good idea to have the QB chip a 330 lb man. My point was that using the QB as a sealing blocker - even if the block is lousy by normal standards - is used regularly.

    What is illogical about your question is that you are asking a rhetorical question about something that just happened. If someone stubs their toe, you don't ask them, "How would you feel if you stubbed your toe?" Not only that, but the general tone of my comments gave you the answer that you were looking for. There was no need to even ask the question.

    Would I want Brady throwing himself at Pat Williams' knees as a regular part of the offense? Of course not. Do I feel inspired to call the team if I see Brady chip a guy to seal an end around a few times per season? Not really.
     
  20. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Why don't some of you spoiled fans go back to the days like the year 1990 when we were THRILLED to win at all let alone winning by 17 points

    This is ridiculous to even discuss - A win is a win / F-ck the stats

    If we happen to win the next 12-14 games by 12-14 points in total (1 point winning margin) thats good enough for me,Unfortunately some fans want nothing but domination :rolleyes:

    Look back on these days in several years from now when NE is again a 5-11 club or worse...Then you will be thankful you were alive to be a part of this era which will NOT come along again in your lifetime in all likelyhood
     

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