Week 3 Thoughts

[PatsWSB47]

I'm pumped of course but I remember several years when the Colts were blowing everyone out and the Pats were just finding ways to win. The finding a way to win team won the superbowls. I'm not taking this for granted, and I'm not saying that the Pats are...just sayin.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

The quoted here, ladies and gentlemen, is the HEIGHT of a dishonest post. NO ONE is arguing that he's "a pro bowler." So please cut it with that. You're embarrassing yourself. Secondly, your contention that you "will judge how far he comes at the end of the season" is pure, unadulterated HORSECRAP. You - quite clearly - will judge him on the same three games we're judging him on, you'll just judge that he has "a long way to go."

Finally, this entire argument takes place in the context of the three games - WE are the ones acknowledging that. YOU, on the other hand, in a humiliating and ridiculous backpedal, are trying to turn this into our side pushing LoMar for Canton or something, as though we're saying "he's AWESOME NOW! He's a lock for the Pro Bowl."

That's a disgusting and pointless thing to try and turn a losing argument into. A total lack of intellectual honesty. Just stop.

Maroney has a ways to go. Period.

The horsecrap, my angry white fellow poster, is saying that Maroney has arrived based on a handful of games as lead back. Talent is not enough in this league.

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

This league is full of great running backs, and Maroney has yet to really make his mark. Every good running back in this league has a 1200 or 1300 yard season these days. Maybe Maroney won't get enough carries to pile up those yards, but if you want to talk stats, than Maroney needs a bigger track record than what we have.

The conclusion that you are leaping to, with skyrocketing blood pressure as always, is that I am somehow against Maroney in some way because he still has a lot of room for improvement. Therefore no matter how many times I simply repeat that he has not arrived yet as a complete player, and has work to do, you are going to come after me with your 'dishonesty' or whatever. But at the end of the day, my opinion is not remotely changed by your ranting.

I think Maroney is a great kid, and I will be tuned in to see if he breaks out this year. I look forward to a big game against the Bengals from Maroney, but that is not going to make me say he has magically arrived where he needs to be as a top back in this league. It is a process, whether you think that is 'dishonest' or whatever.

 

[JackBauer]

Maroney - happy to see him throw a block in pass protection, it wasn't a great block but it was better than the 'Ole' he tried last week. I think he is a good back but not great. Addai, Lynch, Peterson all look more complete. I expect 1000 - 1200 yards for the next 4 years, nothing to sneeze at.

Lynch and Peterson may have higher ceilings, but I think Maroney has more upside than Addai. I don't have anything substantive to back this up, just my impression.

Stallworth - Jury is still out, I could see a scenario where a healthy Jackson replaces him around week 10.

Next year, perhaps, but I don't think there's even a miniscule chance that happens this year. Just because Moss and Welker have been playing like gangbusters shouldn't take anything away from Stallworth. He will play an invaluable role later in the year, when we play teams that actually have secondaries (e.g. the Ravens).

Anyway, I think this team is by far the most talented Patriots team of all time, and could be one of the best teams ever. The only negative I see at this point is our punter, who clearly sucks. Wish we kept Baugher.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Lynch and Peterson may have higher ceilings, but I think Maroney has more upside than Addai. I don't have anything substantive to back this up, just my impression.

Could it be that maybe just maybe you're a Pats homer?

Please don't torture me Jack.
My screaming will wreck your hearing.

 

[patsox23]

Maroney has a ways to go. Period.

The horsecrap, my angry white fellow poster, is saying that Maroney has arrived based on a handful of games as lead back. Talent is not enough in this league.

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

This league is full of great running backs, and Maroney has yet to really make his mark. Every good running back in this league has a 1200 or 1300 yard season these days. Maybe Maroney won't get enough carries to pile up those yards, but if you want to talk stats, than Maroney needs a bigger track record than what we have.

The conclusion that you are leaping to, with skyrocketing blood pressure as always, is that I am somehow against Maroney in some way because he still has a lot of room for improvement. Therefore no matter how many times I simply repeat that he has not arrived yet as a complete player, and has work to do, you are going to come after me with your 'dishonesty' or whatever. But at the end of the day, my opinion is not remotely changed by your ranting.

I think Maroney is a great kid, and I will be tuned in to see if he breaks out this year. I look forward to a big game against the Bengals from Maroney, but that is not going to make me say he has magically arrived where he needs to be as a top back in this league. It is a process, whether you think that is 'dishonest' or whatever.

No, again, you're missing the point or intentionally skewing the point. I even addressed this "process" point of yours - and the fact that you bring it up here, AGAIN, shows that you didn't actaully read my post. NO ONE IS ARGUING that it's not "a process." NO ONE. AT ALL. Please stop responding when you're clearly not reading what I posted.

None of us thinks Maroney has "arrived" and none of us is arguing that point. Stop pretending that we are. THIS is what I mean about you being intellectually dishonest. I don't think any of us is saying that "you don't like Maroney" or whatever, either. We just think that the idea that LoMar "has a ways to go" or that he hasn't shown much in "most areas" of his game is PLAINLY false. And it's not supported by the stats, from last season OR the limited sample size of this season.

Again, please read the posts. This response is irritating not in that I find it inaccurate, but rather because you're clearly not taking the time to read what our ACTUAL arguments are.

 

[JackBauer]

Isn't Larry Johnson notoriously bad in pass protection, too? Before KC's OL completely ate shiznit he was considered a top-3 back in the league.

Maroney is awesome. He's on the cusp of becoming an elite back in this league, IMO.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm pumped of course but I remember several years when the Colts were blowing everyone out and the Pats were just finding ways to win. The finding a way to win team won the superbowls. I'm not taking this for granted, and I'm not saying that the Pats are...just sayin.

Isnt there a difference though?
The Colts were 'blowing people out' by outscoring them, and not playing much defense. The situation was that they could score a boatload of points against decent Ds so they could score more than their D allowed. At no point did the dominate on both sides of the ball, like we are doing. That's the key to me. We are nothing like the Colts of this decade or the Rams of the late90s-early 00s. Those teams needed to score to cover weak defenses. We are winning just as much on D as on O. We CAN score tons of points, they HAD TO.

 

[JackBauer]

Could it be that maybe just maybe you're a Pats homer?

Please don't torture me Jack.
My screaming will wreck your hearing.

Wow, what a compelling rejoinder. I am fascinated by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I stand by my statement.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

No. I changed the terminology because 'talking about them as the best' implies they are among the best.
Please let me know where the team is that only has 5 guys blocking. Our OL does the same job that everyone elses does.

I asked a very simple pointed question. If they are not in the discussion for the best, then what OLs are better.
Using comments like 'may turn out to be' is wrong. We are asking ARE THEY. That means you compare them to everyone else. Otherwise you cannot rate anyone because of what they 'may turn out to be'.

Its very simple.
I asked is it time to start considering whether this is the best OL in the NFL.
You said NO

If you cannot consider that point, then there must be OLs you feel are CLEARLY better. Who are they?
By the way, every team in the NFL also uses TEs to block, so dont hide behind that one.

Actually you are wrong.

The only thing we can possibly say after three games is 'may turn out to be one of the better lines, after a full season of play'. I am as encouraged as anybody about the consistent play they have shown.

This is a line that has had trouble putting two solid halves of play together for at least the last two seasons. The fact that they have done their job for three games, with extra help, and with Brady, Welker and Moss running the show does not imply that they are suddenly the BEST.

I almost never call anything 'THE BEST' for that matter, because I certainly am not smart enough to figure out a simply impossible amount of variables in any given situation.

I think the line looks consistent through three games, which to me is quite ten times more important than taking the kneejerk route and saying that they are simply 'THE BEST'.

This line has been inconsistent for years, and to say that the same group of guys is the best that the NFL has to offer after only three games is a fool's call.

The reason I even brought that up in the first place is because it is a pet peeve of mine when people rush to conclusions so quickly. A leopard doesn't change his spots. Our OL is a lunchpail group of guys who have never consistently been good at both pass protection and run blocking over the course of the same season, let alone two games in a row. At this point, I simply will not declare them 'THE BEST' after three games.

 

[patsox23]

I think the line looks consistent through three games, which to me is quite ten times more important than taking the kneejerk route and saying that they are simply 'THE BEST'.

At this point, I simply will not declare them 'THE BEST' after three games.

Did AJ call them "THE BEST?" Or is the straw man making yet another appearance?

 

[JackBauer]

I almost never call anything 'THE BEST' for that matter, because I certainly am not smart enough to figure out a simply impossible amount of variables in any given situation.

Didn't he say they could be CONSIDERED the best?

This should be easy: Which OL's do you think are better?

The reason I even brought that up in the first place is because it is a pet peeve of mine when people rush to conclusions so quickly. A leopard doesn't change his spots. Our OL is a lunchpail group of guys who have never consistently been good at both pass protection and run blocking over the course of the same season, let alone two games in a row. At this point, I simply will not declare them 'THE BEST' after three games.

I think you're discounting what continuity can do for an OL. You're also discounting the fact that, finally, Light seems to be completely healthy. You're also discounting the fact that Mankins has blossomed into an All Pro LG. You're also discounting the fact that Kaczur, for all his hiccups along the way, now appears to be putting in steady play at RT.

 

[Real World]

My thoughts after 3 games:

1) I never knew Sammy Morris was this good. I admittedly did a double take when they signed him. Sorry Sammy!

2) This just in, Brady is beyond exceptional with talent at WR.

3) You mean Seymour AND Harrison haven't taken the field yet?

4) Damn, all that past success was directly the result of videogate. BB sucks without it.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

No, again, you're missing the point or intentionally skewing the point. I even addressed this "process" point of yours - and the fact that you bring it up here, AGAIN, shows that you didn't actaully read my post. NO ONE IS ARGUING that it's not "a process." NO ONE. AT ALL. Please stop responding when you're clearly not reading what I posted.

None of us thinks Maroney has "arrived" and none of us is arguing that point. Stop pretending that we are. THIS is what I mean about you being intellectually dishonest. I don't think any of us is saying that "you don't like Maroney" or whatever, either. We just think that the idea that LoMar "has a ways to go" or that he hasn't shown much in "most areas" of his game is PLAINLY false. And it's not supported by the stats, from last season OR the limited sample size of this season.

Again, please read the posts. This response is irritating not in that I find it inaccurate, but rather because you're clearly not taking the time to read what our ACTUAL arguments are.

Comprehending your posts is not difficult. Overcoming your paranoia is.

I am simply going to judge Maroney based on a bigger time frame then three games. Talent is just the starting point in this league. To me, he is still almost a rookie. He split carries last year and didn't finish the season.

When he is a complete back, I will be as happy as anyone. In fact, I will appreciate his improvement much more than people who apparently can only see one side of the equation. I will respect him that much more when he pass protects and hits the hole every time and gets the really tough yards up the middle when the box is stacked and becomes a big threat in the passing game.

Same with the OL. If they can play consistently for the whole season, I will appreciate their growth more than somebody who only sees one side of the equation. I know how inconsistent they have been, so it will take me a little longer than three games to say they are the best the NFL has to offer, or more likely, just playing a lot more consistently. Doesn't mean they can't achieve that level of play, but it seems pretty soon to make the call.

 

[Ring 6]

No, again, you're missing the point or intentionally skewing the point. I even addressed this "process" point of yours - and the fact that you bring it up here, AGAIN, shows that you didn't actaully read my post. NO ONE IS ARGUING that it's not "a process." NO ONE. AT ALL. Please stop responding when you're clearly not reading what I posted.

None of us thinks Maroney has "arrived" and none of us is arguing that point. Stop pretending that we are. THIS is what I mean about you being intellectually dishonest. I don't think any of us is saying that "you don't like Maroney" or whatever, either. We just think that the idea that LoMar "has a ways to go" or that he hasn't shown much in "most areas" of his game is PLAINLY false. And it's not supported by the stats, from last season OR the limited sample size of this season.

Again, please read the posts. This response is irritating not in that I find it inaccurate, but rather because you're clearly not taking the time to read what our ACTUAL arguments are.

Im getting a headache reading this.
Maybe I misunderstand the point.
Isn't the point WHERE MARONEY IS TODAY? Don't all young RBs have 'a long way to go'? The question is a long way to what?
Some have a long way to go to get on the field. Others have a long way to go to earn a starting job, others a long way to go to be good. All have a long way to go to reach their full potential.

My opinion is that right now Maroney is an effective RB for this team. I think his 'style' is a good fit within the rest of the offense around him. I think we are better than average at the RB position, with strong depth to go along with a guy who should make a ton of plays in our system.

I don't understand why so many people are so hesitant to commit to an opinion. "Wait and see" is the equivalent of "I dont know" to me. We aren't judging Maroneys career today, we are assessing where he is right now.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Im getting a headache reading this.
Maybe I misunderstand the point.
Isn't the point WHERE MARONEY IS TODAY? Don't all young RBs have 'a long way to go'? The question is a long way to what?
Some have a long way to go to get on the field. Others have a long way to go to earn a starting job, others a long way to go to be good. All have a long way to go to reach their full potential.

My opinion is that right now Maroney is an effective RB for this team. I think his 'style' is a good fit within the rest of the offense around him. I think we are better than average at the RB position, with strong depth to go along with a guy who should make a ton of plays in our system.

I don't understand why so many people are so hesitant to commit to an opinion. "Wait and see" is the equivalent of "I dont know" to me. We aren't judging Maroneys career today, we are assessing where he is right now.

it is quite obvious

he has a long way to go

like everyone else in the league

nice summary by the way--i agree that Scar did a phenomenal job implementing a new blocking scheme

and maroney--looks to me like he did last year--as a threat to score every time he touches the ball

 

[patsox23]

Comprehending your posts is not difficult. Overcoming your paranoia is.

Listen, this mudslinging based on nothing was tiresome the first time you tried it. You have said repeatedly that we're wrong for not understanding that it's "a process." We haven't said that. YOU KNOW we haven't said that. You also are charging that we've called Maroney a "Pro Bowler" who has "arrived." Again, we haven't said this at all.

So. If "comprehending" my posts is "not difficult," I can only assume that what you're engaged in is willful dishonesty, most likely born of being cornered by your own words. You have been backpedaling and, apparently, LYING for long enough. Run along. I'm done with you.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Didn't he say they could be CONSIDERED the best?

This should be easy: Which OL's do you think are better?



I think you're discounting what continuity can do for an OL. You're also discounting the fact that, finally, Light seems to be completely healthy. You're also discounting the fact that Mankins has blossomed into an All Pro LG. You're also discounting the fact that Kaczur, for all his hiccups along the way, now appears to be putting in steady play at RT.

I am not discounting ANYTHING. I am suggesting that as of week three I am not going to declare the Pats OL as the best in the league. They have a long history now of not being the best, and it will take a rational person more than three weeks to make the snap judgement that they are the best versus they are improved and playing consistently, which is good enough.

The basic problem here is that Andy and Patsox have their knickers on backwards because I made a couple very easy to understand statements that they vehemently disagree with.

Number 1- The verdict ain't out on the OL just yet.

How about YOU GUYS compare every single O-LINE in this league to our OL over three weeks. Break down ALL the plays, isolate only the 5 immediate linemen, and project how they would look with Brady and Moss running the ship.

How about you guys do this extensive review in massive detail to support your claims? Or is it simply a STRAWMAN argument to suggest that I statistically compare every player in the league at the OL position if I don't happen to agree that we can draw season long conclusions about the OL based on week 3?

The fact is that it takes an enormous amount of real data to even begin to project who is the best OL in the league, and I always try not to simply declare the home team as the best this or that without evidence. ESPECIALLY AFTER WEEK 3!

Number 2- Maroney is not a complete player yet.

Number 3- the team is playing well and the OL is more consistent than in the past and Maroney is still learning, so why do we need to jump to conclusions?

 

[patsox23]

Number 1- The verdict ain't out on the OL just yet.

Number 2- Maroney is not a complete player yet.

Number 3- the team is playing well and the OL is more consistent than in the past and Maroney is still learning, so why do we need to jump to conclusions?

I can't speak for AJ, but the reason I have gotten annoyed with you is that you continually misrepresent what the argument is as some bizarre kind of backpedal on the words YOU used before.

NONE of these 3 points has been argued by any of us. Not a single one of them. Please stop promoting the fiction that they have been. That's essentially all I'm asking from you.

 

[spacecrime]

Man some of you people are a f'n joke. Maroney is averaging 4.7 yards a carry yet all you're doing is knocking the guy. It's ridiculous. A long way to go? Give me a break.

I don't understand it either, must be a Red Sox fan thing.

 

[JackBauer]

I am not discounting ANYTHING. I am suggesting that as of week three I am not going to declare the Pats OL as the best in the league. They have a long history now of not being the best, and it will take a rational person more than three weeks to make the snap judgement that they are the best versus they are improved and playing consistently, which is good enough.

The basic problem here is that Andy and Patsox have their knickers on backwards because I made a couple very easy to understand statements that they vehemently disagree with.

Number 1- The verdict ain't out on the OL just yet.

How about YOU GUYS compare every single O-LINE in this league to our OL over three weeks. Break down ALL the plays, isolate only the 5 immediate linemen, and project how they would look with Brady and Moss running the ship.

How about you guys do this extensive review in massive detail to support your claims? Or is it simply a STRAWMAN argument to suggest that I statistically compare every player in the league at the OL position if I don't happen to agree that we can draw season long conclusions about the OL based on week 3?

The fact is that it takes an enormous amount of real data to even begin to project who is the best OL in the league, and I always try not to simply declare the home team as the best this or that without evidence. ESPECIALLY AFTER WEEK 3!

Number 2- Maroney is not a complete player yet.

Number 3- the team is playing well and the OL is more consistent than in the past and Maroney is still learning, so why do we need to jump to conclusions?

Yawn.

More straw men.