WEEI.com: More Pats Under Post-Minicamp Microscope

[PatsfanGlo]

Thank you Chris. By far, this is far more entertaining and informative than garbage spewed by ESPN. Please keep up the good work.

 

[Urgent]

Nice to have your insight.

On Vollmer and Brace:
We won't know much on the linemen until the pads come on. It's very difficult to get any feel for that in sweats. And on the JoeSixPat comment about the Pats 'hiding' Brace - I believe that's just the layout of where the linemen practice vs. where the media is seated.

On Wheatley and Wilhite:
These guys are clones - same draft year, same size, same speed, same skills. It sounds like Wilhite has the inside track right now on the slot spot, which should be a good fit. However they should be pretty interchangeable if both are healthy. Both should be better with a full season in the league. Further, with Bodden and Springs, neither face pressure to start right away, and they can learn from two impressive veterans.

On Crable and Woods:
These two guys, however, seem like inverses. Woods we know has solid skills setting the edge. In three seasons, however, he has one sack. Crable came out of college with good pass rush skills, but the knock on him has been his lighter base, and concerns that he could be run over. Through training camp, we'll be looking for explosion from Woods, to see if he can generate any pass rush, and run blocking and tackling from Crable. While the Pats can say "we'll put Woods in on running downs, and Crable on passing downs" the opponent need not cooperate. They can pass on Woods, and then go no huddle on third down, or run on third over Crable.

On Slater:
I was not a big fan of his drafting, and was unhappy with his performance last year, especially the costly muffed kick and then the missed recovery against Buffalo. It's hard to blame plays like that on being stretched too thin by trying receiver and safety - those both showed poor instincts and hands. It's too early to write him off. But whether he is listed as a safety, like JeRod Cherry, or a receiver like Sam Aiken, his contributions will come on special teams. And last year his KR average was about half Hobbs, obviously running behind the same blocking. He's in the mix to replace Hobbs, but he needs to show a lot of improvement on special teams to make the team.

On Redd:
I'm sure Chris means to group Redd with the OLB's, not the ILB's with Guyton and Lenon. Redd is really the only guy on the bubble facing someone not currently on the team. If the Patriots find a way to sign a Burgess or someone else, he takes Redd's place.

 

[Christopher_Price]

Thanks guys. And thanks for the kind words. It's been great to be a part of the patsfans.com community, so I wanted to make sure I got a shout-out in there for the messageboard -- you guys were the real impetus for this project.

A lot of good points and questions -- let me take them one by one. (And let me stress again that these are relatively early sketches of guys -- we'll know a lot more about them after their first practice in pads.)

I strongly believe there is reason to be optimistic about the group of young linebackers. Mayo aside, the rest of them -- Woods, Guyton, Redd and Crable -- have all really formed a bond. Belichick has singled them out on a number of occasions as showing real offseason commitment. (I joked with Pierre once, asking if the new guys should be called "Backerhood, The Next Generation" or "Backerhood, Version 2.0.") They know much will be asked of them this season, and I think by the end of the season, at least one of those guys is going to really be counted on to step up. My money is on either Woods or Crable. But so much of their future is likely tied up in Derrick Burgess -- if the Pats go out and get him, then all bets are off. And I'd even hazard a guess as to say that if New England does go out and get him, it might be a comment on where they think those young LBs are -- they might be a year or two away.

Crable's legs are bigger -- they're not huge, but they're bigger than they were last year. He's definitely put on weight. And he said he spent much of the offseason watching film of Willie McGinest. Specifically Willie. They would love for him to replicate a little of what he brought to the field. He remains a really intriguing guy for me. I just have a feeling (and I have no real basis to state this -- it's just a gut feeling) that he's either going to be tremendous, or he'll be a bust.

This is make or break time for Slater. He knows he really struggled last season on special teams. But I think those struggles might be attributed to the fact that he was asked to do a lot as a rookie. (Remember, he was slotted in as a wide receiver, and saw reps their in TC, as well as a DB and kick returner.) I think he wasn't ready for the extra responsibility, and it showed. Now, all he has to worry about is safety (as a backup, at least right now) and working as a return man. If it means he spends more time in practice working on fielding kicks than really wasting his time getting reps with the wide receivers, well, that's a good thing.

Wheatley and Wilhite are really very similar players, and we saw that this spring. I think Wilhite took advantage of the situation when Wheatley went down, gaining the defensive snaps in his absence and starting to play well down the stretch. The primary reason I considered Wilhite ahead of Wheatley on the depth chart is because of the injury. I think Wheatley could increase his reps if he noses his way into an already crowded return group.

I'd love to read into a conspiracy theory that they were hiding Brace -- it's just that the big guys work out in the corner of the practice field, mostly away from the prying eyes of us in the media.

As for Vollmer, I stick by my statement that the best way to see how a young offensive lineman is doing is to see how many practice laps he had to run or how many times he was verbally undressed by Dante Scarnecchia. And he was clear on both counts.

Hope this helps. Thanks again for the nice words, and thanks for reading!
Chris

 

[Pats726]

Great stuff Chris...as the wait is on for training camp....but O am sure there will be some smaller changes....besides the signing of the remaining 11 draftees.

 

[Kasmir]

I've been getting an "Requested Range Not Satisfiable" error from the WEEI link...

Christopher Price | More Pats Under The Post-Minicamp Microscope

...since yesterday.

 

[Christopher_Price]

Kasmir -- Have you been trying in both Firefox and Safari? I know that Firefox can be a bit wobbly sometimes when it comes to our site. If you can't get it by the end of the day today PM me and I'll send you the story myself.

 

[Deus Irae]

I've been getting an "Requested Range Not Satisfiable" error from the WEEI link...

Christopher Price | More Pats Under The Post-Minicamp Microscope

...since yesterday.

Kasmir -- Have you been trying in both Firefox and Safari? I know that Firefox can be a bit wobbly sometimes when it comes to our site. If you can't get it by the end of the day today PM me and I'll send you the story myself.

I've used Firefox to open it multiple times, with no problems.

 

[patriot lifer]

ditto of what everyone else already said

Superb job!

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

Thanks for the writeup......very good stuff indeed!

 

[Kasmir]

Kasmir -- Have you been trying in both Firefox and Safari? I know that Firefox can be a bit wobbly sometimes when it comes to our site. If you can't get it by the end of the day today PM me and I'll send you the story myself.

Hi Chris,

It's some kind of client/server interaction...

Requested Range Not Satisfiable

None of the range-specifier values in the Range request-header field overlap the current extent of the selected resource.
Apache/2.2.10 (Linux/SUSE) Server at www.weei.com Port 80"

...although it happens for any page under WEEI | Homepage for true Boston sports fans.

It doesn't happen under Google Chrome or IE. Perhaps it's an interaction with my FireFox version (3.0.11) or a plugin I'm using...

 

[Christopher_Price]

Hi Chris,

It's some kind of client/server interaction...

Requested Range Not Satisfiable

None of the range-specifier values in the Range request-header field overlap the current extent of the selected resource.
Apache/2.2.10 (Linux/SUSE) Server at www.weei.com Port 80"

...although it happens for any page under WEEI | Homepage for true Boston sports fans.

It doesn't happen under Google Chrome or IE. Perhaps it's an interaction with my FireFox version (3.0.11) or a plugin I'm using...

Sorry -- not sure what the problem is. I just PM'd you the story in three parts.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

On Crable and Woods:
These two guys, however, seem like inverses. Woods we know has solid skills setting the edge. In three seasons, however, he has one sack. Crable came out of college with good pass rush skills, but the knock on him has been his lighter base, and concerns that he could be run over. Through training camp, we'll be looking for explosion from Woods, to see if he can generate any pass rush, and run blocking and tackling from Crable. While the Pats can say "we'll put Woods in on running downs, and Crable on passing downs" the opponent need not cooperate. They can pass on Woods, and then go no huddle on third down, or run on third over Crable.

Woods will be fine, we'll see how Crable does his second year.

On Slater:
I was not a big fan of his drafting, and was unhappy with his performance last year, especially the costly muffed kick and then the missed recovery against Buffalo. It's hard to blame plays like that on being stretched too thin by trying receiver and safety - those both showed poor instincts and hands. It's too early to write him off. But whether he is listed as a safety, like JeRod Cherry, or a receiver like Sam Aiken, his contributions will come on special teams. And last year his KR average was about half Hobbs, obviously running behind the same blocking. He's in the mix to replace Hobbs, but he needs to show a lot of improvement on special teams to make the team.

"Obviously" not "running behind the same blocking." Slater was the lead blocker for Hobbs, we've seen how various lead blockers can disrupt the returns, Slater did a better job than people like to give him credit as a lead blocker and in kick coverage roles. I still maintain the muff was more on Seely for assigning the job to a Southern California rookie in a mid-November rain storm, he had Faulk (I can't remember if Morris was available, but he'd be another good "mudder" for that kind of situation) - that was just a flat out coaching mistake.

On Redd:
I'm sure Chris means to group Redd with the OLB's, not the ILB's with Guyton and Lenon. Redd is really the only guy on the bubble facing someone not currently on the team. If the Patriots find a way to sign a Burgess or someone else, he takes Redd's place.

Redd wasn't too bad on Special Teams, Burgess may be a useful veteran for the pass rush, but he's a liability against the run - which puts our speculation right back to your thoughts on Woods/Crable. Redd's run defense isn't too shabby, he was used also as a 3-4 DE during his time at Virginia, he's just not as explosive as Crable or Woods off the edge - hopefully he was also studying Willy's power game in the offseason. That Special Teams role may keep him on the team over someone like Burgess if Woods and/or Crable are playing well.

 

[Patjew]

Nice job Chris, really informative read. I love having one of "our guys" getting this kind of access and giving us the inside scoop.

 

[RayClay]

I still maintain the muff was more on Seely for assigning the job to a Southern California rookie in a mid-November rain storm, he had Faulk (I can't remember if Morris was available, but he'd be another good "mudder" for that kind of situation) - that was just a flat out coaching mistake.

Fair weather only kick returner still seeking position [offense/defense?]. We're getting quite specialized, no?

 

[DarrylS]

Good job... nice to see that Crable has added some "bulk" to his legs, but we will know more in TC and preseason.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Fair weather only kick returner still seeking position [offense/defense?]. We're getting quite specialized, no?

Been out in the sun too long again have we?

Timeline:
- Slater grows up and goes to college in SoCal...
- Drafted by NE.
- Gets return reps in Training Camp and Practice but is not the primary returner.
- September and October in NE can be brisk, but not usually too bad.
- November, critical game against Pittsburgh, cold and wet with All-Pro veterans dropping passes left and right, Hobbs is dinged, put the warm blooded rookie who doesn't have too many (if any) KRs in the midst of a NE dead leaf clearing rainfall.

The surprise would have been a clean catch and good return. Yeh, he's a Pro now and should have caught the ball cleanly, but the way things were going in that game, it wasn't the most alert coaching move you could make.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Timeline:
- Slater grows up and goes to college in SoCal...
- Drafted by NE.
- Gets return reps in Training Camp and Practice but is not the primary returner.
- September and October in NE can be brisk, but not usually too bad.
- November, critical game against Pittsburgh, cold and wet with All-Pro veterans dropping passes left and right, Hobbs is dinged, put the warm blooded rookie who doesn't have too many (if any) KRs in the midst of a NE dead leaf clearing rainfall.

The surprise would have been a clean catch and good return. Yeh, he's a Pro now and should have caught the ball cleanly, but the way things were going in that game, it wasn't the most alert coaching move you could make.

Admitedly in the heat of gameday I can be critical of a player's performance or lack of same, but it's only reasonable to give rookies dispensation for mistakes, see the apt term "rookie mistakes". Second year players are held to a much stricter standard by the staff and fans and Slater will need to perform well in camp to stay with this young talented bunch full of guys with potential but no track record of on field NFL level performance.