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We won't be fooled again.....or will we?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    October 24, 2006


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    There is a massive concentration of US naval power in the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea. Three US naval strike groups off the Iranian coastline are deployed: USS Enterprise, USS Eisenhower and USS Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group.

    The naval strike groups have been assigned to fighting the "global war on terrorism."

    Tehran considers the US war games to be conducted in the Persian Gulf, off the Iranian coastline as a provocation, which is intended to trigger a potential crisis and a situation of direct confrontation between US and Iranian naval forces in the Persian Gulf:

    "Reports say the US-led naval exercises based near Bahrain will practise intercepting and searching ships carrying weapons of mass destruction and missiles.

    Iran's official news agency IRNA quoted an unnamed foreign ministry official as describing the military manoeuvres as dangerous and suspicious.
    Reports say the US-led naval exercises based near Bahrain will practise intercepting and searching ships carrying weapons of mass destruction and missiles.

    The Iranian foreign ministry official said the US-led exercises were not in line with the security and stability of the region. Instead, they are aimed at fomenting crises, he said." (quoted in BBC, 23 October 2006)

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    again.....for those deaf to history:

    A phantom attack on two U.S. destroyers cruising the Gulf of Tonkin was staged by the Pentagon and the C.I.A. The bogus attack occurred early in August, 1964. That evening President Lyndon Johnson went on television giving the grim details of the non-attack. Later, however, it was revealed that navy commander James Stockdale flew cover over the Gulf of Tonkin that night. Stockdale disclosed that U.S. ships were firing at phantom targets—targets that didn’t exist. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident that drew the U.S. into the quagmire of Viet Nam simply didn’t happen. Johnson, as presidents so often do, lied to the American people. The result was the rapid passage of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which was the sole legal basis for the Viet Nam War. As a result of Johnson’s lie, three million Vietnamese people and fifty eight thousand U.S. soldiers died.
  2. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    Your conspiracy illusions are so simplistic;they have become laughable.

    You imply that the phony Gulf of Tonkin Resolution directed resulted in the deaths of MILLIONS of vietnamese and americans.
    THIS IS ABSURD!

    Don't you think LBJ would have expanded the war,regardless of this contrived incident?

    By your logic,the asassination of the Archduke Ferdinand by Serbian nut-jobs caused the deaths of MILLIONS during WWI.

    Don't you think Germany would have gone to war,anyway?

    Because a butterfly flaps it's wings in Sri Lanks,doesn't cause a hurricane to hit New Orleans.

    Stop looking for the "golden BB",that fits your "Vast right-wing Conspiracy Theories"

    It's Simplistic,

    It's Naive,and it's LAZY.

    Political neophytes draw conclusions.

    Don't be like that......Read.....Analyze..

    Wait.....then, finally,you have earned the right to comment.

    Right or Left,anything else is just mindless cacophony.
  3. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    whaaaaaaaaat?

    I'm not drawing a single conclusion....I'm reading, like you told me to. I'm looking into the past, and looking at the present. That is all. Its undeniable that there is a massive military force currently in the gulf region. It is fact that they are conducting war games as I type this. It is fact that this is pissing off the Iranians.

    You seem to live in a world where leaders, seeking power, use truth and justice to settle differences through dialog, and use war as a last resort. I want to live there with you! send me the address, please!

    History paints a different picture.

    WW2
    1933: the german Reichstag (parliament) is set on fire. The incident was blamed on communist sympathizers, and used by the Nazis to increase public support and ultimately suspent civil liberties and ban all non-Nazi parties. The fire is widely believed to have been started by Hermann Göring, a central member of the Nazi party.
    1939: Poland launches 21 military attacks against Germany, prompting the German invasion of Poland and the start of World War 2. All the attacks were faked by the Nazi party as part of operation Himmler, and used as an excuse for attacking Poland.
    1941: Japan performs a surprise-attack on the US naval base at Pearl Harbor. It is believed that the US had considerable intelligence information prior to the attack, but still allowed it to happen to get public support for US involvement in World War 2


    1954: several bombs explode in western-owned buildings in Egypt, including a UN diplomatic facility, with evidence implicating arabs. The bombings were revealed to be an israeli covert operation when a bomb went off prematurely, and were designed to keep the british from withdrawing from Egypt and leaving control of the Suez canal to Egypt.

    1962: the US Joint Chiefs of Staff presents a proposal codenamed operation Northwoods to US president John F. Kennedy. It involves carrying out terrorist attacks against US citizens, and blame them on Cuba as a pretense for war. Kennedy rejects the proposal. The document was declassified in 1997.

    1964: two US destroyers are attacked by north-Vietnamese gunboats in the Gulf of Tonkin. Investigations have shown that the attacks never actually took place, but they were used by the US government as an excuse to get involved in the Vietnam war.

    1967: the USS Liberty is sunk by unmarked Israeli fighter planes during the six-day war. The US secretary of defence Robert McNamara blames the attack on Egypt and orders a nuclear attack on Cairo. Three minutes before the bombers reach their target, the crew of the Liberty is able to send a distress signal indicating they were attacked by israelis, and the strike is cancelled. It is believed the incident was planned in advance by Israel and the US.

    1969: a bomb explodes in the National Agrarian Bank in Piazza Fontana, Milan, Italy, killing nearly 20 people. The attack was blamed on anarchists, but was actually carried out by neo-fascists supported by the CIA and NATO as part of operation Gladio, and meant to introduce a state of emergency and start an anti-leftwing campaign.

    1979: an assassination attempt on the US diplomat John Gunther Dean in Lebanon fails. It was carried out by Israel to get support for an upcoming invasion of Lebanon, and was revealed when the tank shell used in the attempt was discovered.

    1980: the Central Station in Bologna, Italy is bombed, killing 85 and injuring 200. The incident was initially blamed on the Red Brigades, a militant communist organization. It was in fact conducted by the neo-fascist group Ordine Nuovo with support from NATO (through operation Gladio), CIA, and italian intelligence services, to diminish public support for the communists.


    I hope I am wrong. But saying that I am a political neophite, and don't read is reDONCulous.

    Statements like:

    "Don't you think Germany would have gone to war,anyway?"
    "Don't you think LBJ would have expanded the war,regardless of this contrived incident?"

    are futile, base completely in speculation, and can never be proven to be correct. The butterfly that creates a hurricaine has nothing to do with this. Thats another thread.
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Fir you leftist being fooled and deluded is a way of Life.
  5. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    Holy Diver,please......I don't want this to turn into a polemic pissing match.

    Stop for a minute and understand what you're trying to convey:

    These aren't facts,they're not history.
    They're....maybes,couldbes,shouldbes and most importantly.....what you want them to be.
    That's NOT history.

    This stuff about the Liberty is beyond Absurd.....nuclear bombers 3 minutes from Cairo??????

    My God,man,listen to yourself!
    Has any credible journalist or historian ever produced any documentation of this monumental event?

    Were you the only one who knew?

    I suggested you read and analyze history......not Create it.

    BTW.......the aliteration of the butterfly to the hurricane is appropriate.

    It demonstrates that you're trying to use past ****-eyed conspiracies to prop up your current ****eyed conspiracies.

    I'm not the only one that has called you out on this.However,you can't seem to stop yourself.

    Well my fine friend,I'm saying STOP.

    It diminishes you.

    Either put forth documentation or get off the conspiracy pot.
  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    documentation:

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/tapes.htm
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB24/index.htm#doc10

    Is the above my creation of history?

    It seems to me, that if someone suggest that things may not be as rosey as YOUR view is, that it is wrong, and unfounded. When declassified documents point to a course of history that is different than the one we all learned in school, you say its C**ck-eyed. That sure is a narrow way to look at historical events.

    So, after you listened to the declassified audio tapes of LBJ, and McNamara or read the transcript (which I'm sure you did) ... you still stand by the idea that what you've been told all these years is truth?

    Is that why you want me to STOP? I suggest you simply stop reading my posts and rebuttles. You'll probably feel better. But I welcome dialog, and debate. That is what made this country great, and that is what expands our ideas. I challenge you to show me where I am reading too much into this, or getting my facts wrong, or am way off base with an idea. I welcome being proven wrong. I've been the first one to say that I hope I am wrong about all this. Telling me to STOP, or calling me Co**K-eyed, gets us nowhere.

    give me your perspective, and lets find out what the Flunk is happening?



    "Is this a showdown for the start of WW3, and if so....who fires the first shot?"
    That is the underlying question.
  7. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    Your right,I give up.

    I'm going to sit by the window watching for all those nuclear bombers that apparently everbody but you and Nostradamus have overlooked.

    BTW- The source of your "documentation",The National Security Archive, is a Left-wing funded UFO and other conspiracies website.

    You and Oliver Stone are it's only subscribers.
  8. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    I find it hard to believe someone other than the President ever ordered a nuclear strike on anyone, even if said strike was called off in time.

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