We Should Fly the Black Flag and Change our team Colors

[patpatriot]

Black Flag MF...for you and every other hater, traitor, or pygmy. Get the F...off this board.

 

[mgteich]

No, I have cheered the players for 28 years. I have critcized in thousands of posts for supporting patriot players.

Fans are free to say anything they want, which is the reason I have never supported banning any opinions.

Many, many have been saying for days that Belichick has done nothing wrong, and that everyone who says differently is a traitor. That is your priviledge. We are NOT judge and jury. That responsibility is the Commissioner's. Belichick strongly agrees with you. He has apologized for getting caught. He'll try not to let it happen again. I have also said for days that I will accept and support Kraft's decision on all of this.

And BTW, if you don't understand that the ORGANIZATION is who has brought us this team, then again that is your opinion. Kraft saved this franchise and has made into the best sports organization in the world.
Belichick is who he is. There are many analyses of his statements, actions and intent.

I was read many hundreds of posts that have supported breaking NFL rules with regard to substances and tapes, as long as we are willing to pay the price. I have used the raiders as a comparison. It's really not. I 100% accept Harrison's response to his punishment. I 100% percent think that Belichick's response is a bunch of BS and he will likely try again.

Fans can each make their own choice. First and foremost we will root for the team and the players on the field and the team that has brought us the greatest dynasty of all time. You can also choose to believe as you wish with regard to whether the continuing actions of Belichick help that dynasty or not.

Personally, I expect that Robert Kraft will have several long talks with Belichick. And this type of behavior will not be repeated more than one more time.

No, Belichick did NOT "cheat" There is no such rule. The Commissioner said exactly what he did and Robert Kraft accepted that assessment. I would also note that the Commissioner found that the Krafts knew nothing of the rule-breaking behavior.

Let' beat the chargers and their offensive big-mouthed running back! That will make us all feel better. But it will not change back what has happened over the last couple of years. Again this just MY opinion. Some choose to read my opinion and discuss. Many don't. Thatr's fine.

Guess you were never a Patriots fan to begin with. You musta went to the game to cheer for the ORGANIZATION while the rest of the Patriots FANS cheered the players. Being a fan is about our heritage and the suffering and joy we've experienced as fans. That heritage serves as our foundation and has nothing to do with the actions of the organization.

Phonies like you get embaressed because you worry about your image. you probably worry about your image in your community and at work too, huh. Well guess what, image is "imaginary" my friend and those who worry about it are phony without exception.

People make mistakes, companies make mistakes...but fans don't make mistakes. It's impossible for that to happen. We the fans have done nothing wrong buddy. And our heritage has nothing to do with the team. It is based upon what it means to be a fan and that is all about support. We support our team AND we support each other...period.

WE ARE FANS, NOT JUDGES & JURY.

 

[Brady to Brown]

No, I have cheered the players for 28 years. I have critcized in thousands of posts for supporting patriot players.

Fans are free to say anything they want, which is the reason I have never supported banning any opinions.

Many, many have been saying for days that Belichick has done nothing wrong, and that everyone who says differently is a traitor. That is your priviledge. We are NOT judge and jury. That responsibility is the Commissioner's. Belichick strongly agrees with you. He has apologized for getting caught. He'll try not to let it happen again. I have also said for days that I will accept and support Kraft's decision on all of this.

And BTW, if you don't understand that the ORGANIZATION is who has brought us this team, then again that is your opinion. Kraft saved this franchise and has made into the best sports organization in the world.
Belichick is who he is. There are many analyses of his statements, actions and intent.

I was read many hundreds of posts that have supported breaking NFL rules with regard to substances and tapes, as long as we are willing to pay the price. I have used the raiders as a comparison. It's really not. I 100% accept Harrison's response to his punishment. I 100% percent think that Belichick's response is a bunch of BS and he will likely try again.

Fans can each make their own choice. First and foremost we will root for the team and the players on the field and the team that has brought us the greatest dynasty of all time. You can also choose to believe as you wish with regard to whether the continuing actions of Belichick help that dynasty or not.

Personally, I expect that Robert Kraft will have several long talks with Belichick. And this type of behavior will not be repeated more than one more time.

No, Belichick did NOT "cheat" There is no such rule. The Commissioner said exactly what he did and Robert Kraft accepted that assessment. I would also note that the Commissioner found that the Krafts knew nothing of the rule-breaking behavior.

Let' beat the chargers and their offensive big-mouthed running back! That will make us all feel better. But it will not change back what has happened over the last couple of years. Again this just MY opinion. Some choose to read my opinion and discuss. Many don't. Thatr's fine.

I believe Belichick will break the rules again.

I love the Patriots and I am very glad that Belichick is our coach.

But I believe he will push the limits.

Why? I have no idea.

 

[scout]

No, I have cheered the players for 28 years. I have critcized in thousands of posts for supporting patriot players.

Fans are free to say anything they want, which is the reason I have never supported banning any opinions.

Many, many have been saying for days that Belichick has done nothing wrong, and that everyone who says differently is a traitor. That is your priviledge. We are NOT judge and jury. That responsibility is the Commissioner's. Belichick strongly agrees with you. He has apologized for getting caught. He'll try not to let it happen again. I have also said for days that I will accept and support Kraft's decision on all of this.

And BTW, if you don't understand that the ORGANIZATION is who has brought us this team, then again that is your opinion. Kraft saved this franchise and has made into the best sports organization in the world.
Belichick is who he is. There are many analyses of his statements, actions and intent.

I was read many hundreds of posts that have supported breaking NFL rules with regard to substances and tapes, as long as we are willing to pay the price. I have used the raiders as a comparison. It's really not. I 100% accept Harrison's response to his punishment. I 100% percent think that Belichick's response is a bunch of BS and he will likely try again.

Fans can each make their own choice. First and foremost we will root for the team and the players on the field and the team that has brought us the greatest dynasty of all time. You can also choose to believe as you wish with regard to whether the continuing actions of Belichick help that dynasty or not.

Personally, I expect that Robert Kraft will have several long talks with Belichick. And this type of behavior will not be repeated more than one more time.

No, Belichick did NOT "cheat" There is no such rule. The Commissioner said exactly what he did and Robert Kraft accepted that assessment. I would also note that the Commissioner found that the Krafts knew nothing of the rule-breaking behavior.

Let' beat the chargers and their offensive big-mouthed running back! That will make us all feel better. But it will not change back what has happened over the last couple of years. Again this just MY opinion. Some choose to read my opinion and discuss. Many don't. Thatr's fine.

You sure sound like you would prefer to have someone else coaching the Patriots. If Belichick were to get caught in another incident, would you want him fired?

 

[PonyExpress]

No, I have cheered the players for 28 years. I have critcized in thousands of posts for supporting patriot players.

Fans are free to say anything they want, which is the reason I have never supported banning any opinions.

Many, many have been saying for days that Belichick has done nothing wrong, and that everyone who says differently is a traitor. That is your priviledge. We are NOT judge and jury. That responsibility is the Commissioner's. Belichick strongly agrees with you. He has apologized for getting caught. He'll try not to let it happen again. I have also said for days that I will accept and support Kraft's decision on all of this.

And BTW, if you don't understand that the ORGANIZATION is who has brought us this team, then again that is your opinion. Kraft saved this franchise and has made into the best sports organization in the world.
Belichick is who he is. There are many analyses of his statements, actions and intent.

I was read many hundreds of posts that have supported breaking NFL rules with regard to substances and tapes, as long as we are willing to pay the price. I have used the raiders as a comparison. It's really not. I 100% accept Harrison's response to his punishment. I 100% percent think that Belichick's response is a bunch of BS and he will likely try again.

Fans can each make their own choice. First and foremost we will root for the team and the players on the field and the team that has brought us the greatest dynasty of all time. You can also choose to believe as you wish with regard to whether the continuing actions of Belichick help that dynasty or not.

Personally, I expect that Robert Kraft will have several long talks with Belichick. And this type of behavior will not be repeated more than one more time.

No, Belichick did NOT "cheat" There is no such rule. The Commissioner said exactly what he did and Robert Kraft accepted that assessment. I would also note that the Commissioner found that the Krafts knew nothing of the rule-breaking behavior.

Let' beat the chargers and their offensive big-mouthed running back! That will make us all feel better. But it will not change back what has happened over the last couple of years. Again this just MY opinion. Some choose to read my opinion and discuss. Many don't. Thatr's fine.

The reason Kraft is the best owner in the NFL is because he had the wisdom to hire the best coach in the NFL. Hiring the best coach in the NFL brought him SB victories, which have opened up countless business opportunities for his family and increased the value of his team by a billion dollars. Your attempt to diminish the role Bill Belichick has played in Mr. Kraft's success is ridiculous.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that Belichick has been a critical part of the success of the franchise, as has been Brady and pioli. I believe that Kraft puts up with Belichick's antics because he is such a great coach.

The reason Kraft is the best owner in the NFL is because he had the wisdom to hire the best coach in the NFL. Hiring the best coach in the NFL brought him SB victories, which have opened up countless business opportunities for his family and increased the value of his team by a billion dollars. Your attempt to diminish the role Bill Belichick has played in Mr. Kraft's success is ridiculous.

 

[mgteich]

I 100% trust Robert Kraft's judgment, whatever he decides now and in the future. But for me, I would expect for Belichick not to be the coach next year if there is another incident like this one. In the next few weeks, I expect that he will meet again with the Commissioner by phone and many, many times with Kraft. The ground rules will be very clear. If Belichick again defies the Commissioner and Kraft, yes I would want a new coach for the 2008 season.

What I really want is for Belichick to finish out his decade as coach, through the 2009 season. He has an opportunity to add to his HOF record. There is no doubt that he is one of the very best coaches in the history of the game. He may be the best, but I have a difficult time comparing him with Lombardi and Halas. They are legends to me.

You sure sound like you would prefer to have someone else coaching the Patriots. If Belichick were to get caught in another incident, would you want him fired?

 

[PatsDeb]

I 100% trust Robert Kraft's judgment, whatever he decides now and in the future. But for me, I would expect for Belichick not to be the coach next year if there is another incident like this one. In the next few weeks, I expect that he will meet again with the Commissioner by phone and many, many times with Kraft. The ground rules will be very clear. If Belichick again defies the Commissioner and Kraft, yes I would want a new coach for the 2008 season.
What I really want is for Belichick to finish out his decade as coach, through the 2009 season. He has an opportunity to add to his HOF record. There is no doubt that he is one of the very best coaches in the history of the game. He may be the best, but I have a difficult time comparing him with Lombardi and Halas. They are legends to me.

Why do you think BB will speak to the commish? I don't think he will ever speak to that man again, except to (hopefully) accept the Lombardi from him. I also think Kraft will leave BB alone. I am sure there is an understanding between them that something like this will never happen again. Kraft needs BB as much as BB needs Kraft. Who will come to the Man Mall if the Pats go into the toilet?

 

[mgteich]

Yes, and I'm sure Belichick also believes that the patriots would go into the toilet without his presence. I don't believe that for a second. There is one, and only one key component to this dynasty. Belichick has built the franchise and trained its coaches. The franchise will continue. We've seen it on defense. Belichick, Crennel, Mangini, Pees. We've seen it on offense as we moved on from Charlie to Josh. Personally, I think that pioli is currently more important to the future success of the patriots than Belichick.

In the end, if Kraft believes that this will never happen again, he will extend Belichick.

Why do you think BB will speak to the commish? I don't think he will ever speak to that man again, except to (hopefully) accept the Lombardi from him. I also think Kraft will leave BB alone. I am sure there is an understanding between them that something like this will never happen again. Kraft needs BB as much as BB needs Kraft. Who will come to the Man Mall if the Pats go into the toilet?

 

[JDP111]

I was one that was disappointed when I heard about the videotaping, and I do see it as intentionally breaking the rules, and yes even "cheating".

But good lord the amount of self-flagellation people have taken to (yes you Dan Shaugnessy) is getting a little ridiculous. If you want to root for someone else go ahead, don't let the door hit you in the ass. The rest of us might take this as a learning opportunity for our kids, and move on.

Sunday night is going to be a war.

No. Sunday night will be a smash-mouth football game. Have a little bit of respect and sensibility, and don't throw around "war" when talking about a friggin' football game huh.

 

[JDP111]

You sure sound like you would prefer to have someone else coaching the Patriots. If Belichick were to get caught in another incident, would you want him fired?

Depending upon the "incident"...If the Patriots were caught by the league security, doing the same thing, then yes.

 

[PatsDeb]

Yes, and I'm sure Belichick also believes that the patriots would go into the toilet without his presence. I don't believe that for a second. There is one, and only one key component to this dynasty. Belichick has built the franchise and trained its coaches. The franchise will continue. We've seen it on defense. Belichick, Crennel, Mangini, Pees. We've seen it on offense as we moved on from Charlie to Josh. Personally, I think that pioli is currently more important to the future success of the patriots than Belichick.

In the end, if Kraft believes that this will never happen again, he will extend Belichick.

Are you saying the key component is Kraft, Pioli or Brady? The truth is, the success of this team has been established by the confluence of BB and his coaching methods, Pioli and his scouting methods, Kraft and his ownership methods and the incredible good luck of finding a diamond in the rough, Brady. If any of those things changes, the team will not be nearly as good. I don't think Pioli is more valuable than BB - they are equally valuable, and Brady may be more valuable than either of them. Have you seen what teams without a good QB look like? I don't like to think of the day we'll return to those ranks.

Please come down off the ledge and enjoy the rest of the season. What happened was embarrasing for the team and stupid of BB. Kraft & the players have forgiven him, why can't you?

 

[mgteich]

I agree with all your comments, especially regarding the importance of Brady. I do think we have substitutes for Belichick and none for pioli, but your comments are quite reasonable.

I will indeed forgive in the same manner as the Kraft and the players. But IMO, it would do the team a lot of good if Belichick understood why what he did is indeed embarrassing to the team and stupid (your words). I really don't think he does. If Belichick had ever said that, this issue would be behind us, as is Harrison's violation of the rules. We all forgive Belichick. And we all hope he doesn't get caught again anytime soon.

Are you saying the key component is Kraft, Pioli or Brady? The truth is, the success of this team has been established by the confluence of BB and his coaching methods, Pioli and his scouting methods, Kraft and his ownership methods and the incredible good luck of finding a diamond in the rough, Brady. If any of those things changes, the team will not be nearly as good. I don't think Pioli is more valuable than BB - they are equally valuable, and Brady may be more valuable than either of them. Have you seen what teams without a good QB look like? I don't like to think of the day we'll return to those ranks.

Please come down off the ledge and enjoy the rest of the season. What happened was embarrasing for the team and stupid of BB. Kraft & the players have forgiven him, why can't you?

 

[PatsDeb]

I agree with all your comments, especially regarding the importance of Brady. I do think we have substitutes for Belichick and none for pioli, but your comments are quite reasonable.

I will indeed forgive in the same manner as the Kraft and the players. But IMO, it would do the team a lot of good if Belichick understood why what he did is indeed embarrassing to the team and stupid (your words). I really don't think he does. If Belichick had ever said that, this issue would be behind us, as is Harrison's violation of the rules. We all forgive Belichick. And we all hope he doesn't get caught again anytime soon.

Oh, I think he understands, but he will never, ever admit it publically. It is one of the limitations of the man, which most of the time is amusing. I also think he will never get caught again, as this has caused BB's most hated thing - a huge distraction taking away from his beloved football strategizing. (He'll still find ways to steal signals, but he'll go with more conventional methods )

 

[PonyExpress]

mg,
Your faith in Robert Kraft is admirable. I share your appreciation for him as an upstanding noble individual with rare insight into human nature. That rare insight prompted him to pay and exorbitant price to hire an introverted, insolent coach with plenty of baggage. It was a move that transformed his organization from a minor success story into a phenomenon. If you look at the history of the league, and I know you are a student of that history, you will find a number of great owners over the last 80 years, who hired coaches who led teams to multiple titles. My question to you is: How many owners hired more than one coach, back to back, capable of leading a franchise to a title? How many could have done so in a league as competitve as the one today, where a salary cap enforces a level playing field?

The only one I can think of is DeBartolo, who hired Seifert after Walsh. And Rooney, who hired Cowher after Noll (although the organization had to wait almost 30 years between titles).

My point is, you are seriously overvaluing the importance of Kraft, and undervaluing the importance of Belichick. If your goal as a fan is to see your team win SBs, a coach like BB comes along once in a LIFETIME to a fanbase. To think he is replaceable is folly. If you told me I could keep Mr. Kraft or BB, and not both, I would choose BB without hesitation. Fortunately, we are not faced with that decision. Mr. Kraft has it in his power to retain BB indefinitely. And if he feels BB is not worth the "embarrassment" to his brand, that BB is "too hot to handle", and decides to ease him out gracefully at year's end... then he will be making his biggest mistake yet as an NFL owner. The fact you are cheerleading in that direction is short-sighted and self-defeating. I know you are a true fan but I urge you to reevaluate your perspective on our coach, and put aside issues with his personality and personal life. Very few uniquely successful human beings meet all of our criteria for greatness.

 

[mgteich]

First, Kraft has indeed hired two great coaches, back-to-back. Perhaps I overestimate the greatness of the current team, and the need for a great coach at this point. I believe that any number of coaches could step in at this juncture.

But your point is well taken. As I have said on many occasions, Belichick is one of the three best coaches of all time. No current coach is close. We would not be better off with another coach, unless the diversions continue. And since we all trust Kraft to make sure that they won't continue, we should look forward to Belichick finishing out his decade of dynasty.

mg,
Your faith in Robert Kraft is admirable. I share your appreciation for him as an upstanding noble individual with rare insight into human nature. That rare insight prompted him to pay and exorbitant price to hire an introverted, insolent coach with plenty of baggage. It was a move that transformed his organization from a minor success story into a phenomenon. If you look at the history of the league, and I know you are a student of that history, you will find a number of great owners over the last 80 years, who hired coaches who led teams to multiple titles. My question to you is: How many owners hired more than one coach, back to back, capable of leading a franchise to a title? How many could have done so in a league as competitve as the one today, where a salary cap enforces a level playing field?

The only one I can think of is DeBartolo, who hired Seifert after Walsh. And Rooney, who hired Cowher after Noll (although the organization had to wait almost 30 years between titles).

My point is, you are seriously overvaluing the importance of Kraft, and undervaluing the importance of Belichick. If your goal as a fan is to see your team win SBs, a coach like BB comes along once in a LIFETIME to a fanbase. To think he is replaceable is folly. If you told me I could keep Mr. Kraft or BB, and not both, I would choose BB without hesitation. Fortunately, we are not faced with that decision. Mr. Kraft has it in his power to retain BB indefinitely. And if he feels BB is not worth the "embarrassment" to his brand, that BB is "too hot to handle", and decides to ease him out gracefully at year's end... then he will be making his biggest mistake yet as an NFL owner. The fact you are cheerleading in that direction is short-sighted and self-defeating. I know you are a true fan but I urge you to reevaluate your perspective on our coach, and put aside issues with his personality and personal life. Very few uniquely successful human beings meet all of our criteria for greatness.

 

[Maroney TD]

I know this topic was created as sarcasm but I honestly don't care what anyone else in the league thinks about the Pats. I love this team and will continue to support them going foward. Everyone seems to be against the Pats right now and thats fine with me. I'm not going to feel bad because I am a fan of the Patriots. Let it be the Pats against the world and be the most hated team in the league. Everyone was starting to hate us anyways because we won so much.

I think the players are going to come out this weekend and absolutely blow SD out. All they've heard all week is how they only won because of the cameras and that their Super Bowl wins were BS. I hope they go 16-0 and piss off everyone in the leauge in the process. They have the talent to do it.