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We Should Fly the Black Flag and Change our team Colors

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Sep 14, 2007.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We are the raiders. We aren't the yankees. We are way beyond that.

    We don't care about sportmanship. We care about winning. If we break rules and caught, we will own up to it and pay our penalties. We don't care what anyone thinks. We are proud, load and arrogant. We have the right. We are the best there is.

    And we are surprised when the media and others are negative toward us. Why can't they all just accept hjow great we are? Anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot. We should tear down the CBA and NFL because we were punished.

    We are NOT America's team. We cannot be. We are Boston fans. We are not Dallas. We are San Francisco. We are not Pittsburgh. We are not Indy. We are not Chicago. In 2003 and 2004 we were becoming America's team, but we couldn't stand it.

    We are Boston and stick to anyone who doen't think that we the greatest on the face of the earth.
    ========================================

    I am embarrassed with us. We cannot even begin to consider it looks to be proud about breaking the rules. We cannot even begin to consider how this looks to those who don't live in Boston. I thought that I had seen it all when I saw our reaction to Harrison's suspension. I thought that perhaps that wasn't the real Boston fan. I was wrong. We are Boston fans. We want to win and nothing else matters.
    =========================================

    Let Kraft make whatever statements he needs to make, and let's move on to football. He is the best owner in sports today, and runs the best organization.
  2. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Uhhh, okay. Whatever man.
  3. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    mgteich, we GET. The POINT. I'm so tired of your b!tching and whining on here. Give it a rest.
  4. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    You're a righteous prophet distilling wisdom for the masses. If only we could see through your emerald green glasses.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  5. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Correction! We are New England. That is the name of the team. I don't live in Boston or Mass.

    I'm also not the least bit ashamed of this team. If others are, put a paper bag over your head.
  6. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Mgteich - If you are ashamed of the team and embarrased to be a fan right now then at least hand in your moderator duties and give it to a fan still proud in here.

    Someone will take it if you think bad on the team now.

    I live in Pa I still am a fan - not just for those in Boston or areas nearby - get your facts straight dude,just because you don't live in Boston does not mean you think the Patirots are scum now.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  7. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    mgteich is a moral voice in the wilderness, crying out to wayward children. We are blind to his virtue and wisdom. If only we could see the light of truth from this prophet.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  8. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    Let's just run the fcuking table!!
  9. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Thank you............... go cheer for someone else then. NOEONE WILL CARE.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  10. patman12

    patman12 Rookie

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    Can you have someone change your diaper and put you down for a nap?
  11. moosekill

    moosekill Rookie

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    I guess anyone can be a moderator on this site.
  12. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    You're gahdahm right!
  13. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you may be buying into the media hype going on and the
    tons of jealous lynch mobsters out there.

    Acutally Belichick may have been right but the Comish was really being pushed into this outcome.

    Here a response from a JETs fan who also a Tax Lawyer
    -------------------------------------------------------
    The argument, I take it, is that (1) the rule's reference to "a game" is the SAME game in which the taping occurs, and (2) so long as the information is not used during such game the gathering of such information is not prohibited.

    I actually don't think it's that absurd an interpretation. Indeed, that's the kind of distinction on which many tax positions (I'm a tax lawyer) are based. Indeed, it's interesting to note that the rule only applies to a game in which the team gathering the information is a participant. Presumably it's clear that the rule is not violated if the Pats send an assistant to a Jets-Ravens game and videotape the Jets coaches relaying signals for use in a later game. So, this supports the conclusion that the rule was designed solely to prevent teams from using certain devices to gather information to gain a SAME-GAME advantage.

    The real focus, I think, should be on the term "might". The rule prohibits the use of certain devices to gather information that "might" be used to gain an advantage during the game. The Pats presumably contend that, because they didn't actually gain such a same-game advantage, the rule wasn't broken. (Whether they actually did get such an advantage is unknowable, but the Commissioner can't assume they did.) I think the Commissioner properly took the view that the rule is designed to prevent the gathering of information (through certain devices) that potentially COULD be used for a same-game advantage and that the rule was drafted in this way so that it would not be necessary to resolve the difficult factual question of how, and when, a team actually used the information.

    Nevertheless, it is not all that outlandish for the Pats to take the position that the rule is ambiguous and, therefore, pending clarification, they should not be punished for taking a reasonable view.

    (Of course, if the Pats actually gained a same-game advantage, there's no interpretation that could help them. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did; but since I understand that hasn't been proven, it's not appropriate to simply assume it.)

    And for anyone here who thinks I have some obligation to take the party line, or "get their back", or not side with "them" against "us", sorry: I have the right to offer my honest opinion.


    ---------------------------------------
  14. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Rookie

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    Yeah, f*cking enough already. You're being way oversensitive about this. You act like Brady was paying refs or something.

    According to Belichick they never even used the film in-game.
  15. Stop Being A Jerk

    Stop Being A Jerk Rookie

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    First, I don't think many people are saying that the Patriots didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't have been punished. That's all obvious and anyone denying it probably isn't thinking clearly.

    But I think it's just as obvious that the media and bloggers and so on are piling on because they hate the Patriots and Belichick. It's obvious particularly because of the punishments they recommend, apparently in earnest. What they're asking for is like recommending life in prison for someone convicted of stealing cable. The reaction to this (e.g. calling for asterisks, forfeits, etc.) is not in keeping with the severity of the crime. Not even close.

    There are only two explanations: they're actually stupid enough to believe what they say; or Patriots-haters are trying to tear down a team they despise. I think it's the latter. And I don't want to say that, because it sounds like excuse-mongering at its worst. But it's not. Not in this case. Because what else is there? The seriousness of this infraction is so overblown, for so many obvious reasons, that their stubbornly-held convictions border on inanity. When presented with these reasons, as we Pats fans have done, fruitlessly, along with a handful of others who have the ability to separate what they wish from what is right, I imagine these Patriot-haters, their collective fingers stuck in their ears, singing proudly, "La la la la la I can't hear you!"

    And every player on every team that has ever lost to the Pats is going right along with it, still looking for any excuse they can find for losing over and over again to that "talentless" team. That's the worst part. It gives this whole farce a certain level of veracity that wouldn't otherwise be there were it just the media and no-nothing fans spouting off as is their custom. The players know it's not as big a deal as it's being made out to be. Their teams are probably guilty of it. But they also know that the fans and media will lap it up like sick dogs lap up foetid water. And that, in turn, will take some of the blame off them (blame laid there, by the way, by the very same media and fans, who are unwilling to believe that a team with one Pro-Bowler could possibly beat them without cheating). Players love when the blame is taken off of them. So these cowards, who didn't claim any cheating previously, pretend to jump on the already crowded Pats-hating bandwagon, baiting fans and media alike, then snicker to each other as soon as the microphone is taken away.

    I'm embarrassed. I'm mad because this has given people something legitimate to hate about the Patriots. I'm mad because, whether we like it or not, the media and players and all the way down to internet posters (who, you can be sure, will never let this go), are going to make sure that this stays around; are going to make well and truly sure this is a big enough story that the legacy of this team is permanently tainted. They don't like that Belichick doesn't answer stupid questions. That the Patriots don't fit in with their flashy (in the case of the media), arrogant (players) or fantasy football-bred (internet posters) ideals for what a football team should be. It might be funny if it didn't have a real-world effect on real people, most importantly on the players who worked their asses off to accomplish what they have. As it stands, though, it's mostly petty and pathetic, three groups of individuals teaming up to find their various forms of vengeance. Whether the Patriots beat their team or wouldn't give the juicy story that reporters these days seem to rely on in place of insightful journalism, they all have their motives. And due to the unique setup of pissed-off fans, media and players, they all feed each other like symbiots, giving each other courage and reassurance to say something even more ridiculous.

    Personally, I think the punishment given was about right. Maybe a bit harsh, but there was a warning about this very thing before the start of the season and Goodell is known for being a ball-breaker. I'm sure both those factors had some effect. The bottom line is I can accept it.

    Mostly this whole thing is a shame. For the Patriots' sake, the Krafts', for Belichicks' and his players, for the fans. Because it didn't need to happen. It especially didn't need to happen this season, after the warning had been given and while the Patriots have their best team ever, looking to further their legacy as one of the the league's greatest ever dynasties. Instead we've given the media, that entity which loves to tear down, and the fans, who only like to read about people being torn down, the very thing they've been looking for all along.
  16. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Please stop proselytizing. You sound like an idiot.

    We're not proud of the situation, but we also have some perspective on it. It's about a video camera, not the Lindbergh baby.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  17. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Fly the black flag if you please...whatever...
  18. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    You're gahdahm right!
  19. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    LOL!

    Great tragedies in US modern history:

    1) 09/11
    2) The Civil War
    3) Kennedy assasination
    4) Serial killers
    5) Bill Belichick's fall from the pedastal
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  20. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    I think in the grand scheme of things, the Civil War and slavery were a little higher on the tragedy scale than 9/11. But this Belichick scandal outpaces them all.
  21. Grogan's neck roll

    Grogan's neck roll Rookie

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    I was one that was disappointed when I heard about the videotaping, and I do see it as intentionally breaking the rules, and yes even "cheating".

    But good lord the amount of self-flagellation people have taken to (yes you Dan Shaugnessy) is getting a little ridiculous. If you want to root for someone else go ahead, don't let the door hit you in the ass. The rest of us might take this as a learning opportunity for our kids, and move on.

    Sunday night is going to be a war.
  22. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Guess you were never a Patriots fan to begin with. You musta went to the game to cheer for the ORGANIZATION while the rest of the Patriots FANS cheered the players. Being a fan is about our heritage and the suffering and joy we've experienced as fans. That heritage serves as our foundation and has nothing to do with the actions of the organization.

    Phonies like you get embaressed because you worry about your image. you probably worry about your image in your community and at work too, huh. Well guess what, image is "imaginary" my friend and those who worry about it are phony without exception.

    People make mistakes, companies make mistakes...but fans don't make mistakes. It's impossible for that to happen. We the fans have done nothing wrong buddy. And our heritage has nothing to do with the team. It is based upon what it means to be a fan and that is all about support. We support our team AND we support each other...period.

    WE ARE FANS, NOT JUDGES & JURY.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2007
  23. PatsWorldChamps

    PatsWorldChamps Rookie

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    No, we are New England fans.... most Pats fans do not live in Boston... time for someone to come off their high horse... if you dont like the team, go with that other dude who just couldnt take it anymore, over to JetsInsider... we'll miss you!
  24. Michigan Dave

    Michigan Dave Rookie

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    Are you kidding? Much like when people like to perpetuate that we are somehow a holier-than-thou franchise that players should die to play for, I will respond in the same manner to this: We are one of 32 teams in the NFL. Period. We're doing nothing to get a leg up that the others aren't trying to do. Did we use a different medium to obtain said leg up? Sure. Is it somehow damaging to the integrity of the game, or worth getting so upset and embarrassed over? Hell no.

    I'm just as proud to wear my Pats gear today as I was a year ago, as I was after the Super Bowls.
  25. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Shank Shaugnessey is the ultimate fair weather friend. If you win a championship, he'll gladly write a book about you an dcapitalize on the public's interest. But he certainly does enjoy kicking you when you're down.
  26. Grogan's neck roll

    Grogan's neck roll Rookie

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    Michigan Dave, this is very well said, especially for a Michigan man!! (Ohio Stater here. Sorry about your recent troubles)

    And we'll all be especially proud to wear our Pats' gear after the next Super Bowl.
  27. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Uh...umm...I've lived in New York for the past 15 years or so and you sure...well...kind of...uh...just a little bit...sort of...kind of...don't take this personally...but you sound like a Yankee's fan...

    gotta go real fast...
  28. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    Good I hope they have a bad boy image now. People have hated them for years now, going all the way back when a ragtag bunch of no names and a back-up quarterback beat the greatest show on turf. They should play it up in a "we never got respect" manner anyway. Of course that isn't true, but I will enjoy watching it.
  29. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    The greatest show on turf would have won that game if Belichick didn't use those cameras to steal Rams offensive calls and shut down the passing game of the Rams in SB 36 according to many opinions :rolleyes:
  30. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mg,

    Wow.
    Where do I start.
    I guess I do not know who you refer to as "we".
    I am glad we are not Pittsburgh, who were the worst steroid offenders in league history.
    I am gald we are not Chicago who outside of 1985 are a franchise that has always lost.
    I am glad we are not SF who had ownership put in prison, and willingly violated the salary cap.
    I am glad we are not Indy, who abandoned their fans in Mayflower moving vans.
    I am glad we are not Dallas, the NFL center of drug abuse when they were winning.
    We are a franchise that has committed ONE INDISCRETION. Apparently to you that means we are scum. What franchise has not committed one indiscretion? Certainly not the ones you mentioned.

    Are you really trying to tell me that you root for a football team assuming they are morally perfect, and are stunned and astounded when, like every other football team they are not? Your post strikes me as immature or obtuse.

    You end your diatribe with a salute to Bob Kraft. How can you be embarrassed by the Patriots, and hold the OWNER, the man with ultimate decision making power to be harmless?
    You seem to be trending toward giving Bob Kraft the credit for this teams success, rather than Bill Belichick. That seems inconsistent to me. Kraft had nothing to do with what happened on the field, outside of hiring Belichick. If he deserves credit as the reason this team has been successful, it is solely because of that decision, which means he would equally deserve the criticism for causing your state of embarassment.
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