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We Need To Rethink Some Israel Policy

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    While we're in a climate of political change...I hope we can take a look at our relationship with Israel and make some changes....minor changes across the board that will reflect our relationship with the rest of the Arab world.

    Enough of the tit-for-tat stuff and who makes what weapons. Sure, we should help Israel protect itself the best we can. But why can't we just do it on a major scale...like the Patriot Missle System....major weapons of deterence.

    I read this story and I was appalled. I am an Israel supporter and I like to even give them an edge if possible...but IMO stuff like this just causes us problems. The only reason for this is to line someone in the U.S.'s pocket with money. Israel should make all their weapons and ammunition that they use on a regular basis with the Palestinians. We have no business being part of that atrocity (by both sides) on an everday basis.

    Here's the story....I do realize it has bias in it however
    I'd like to deal with the shrapnel which is fact...weigh in please:

    http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2006/11/09/p12033

    [​IMG]...[​IMG]

    [QUOTE
    ?I have seen some of the shrapnel that was recovered from the previous day?s injuries, marked clearly with ?Made in USA?. The shrapnel pieces seem unusual; our surgeons have not come across this before. Unfortunately, we do not have the time and facilities to investigate. Some of the bodies are totally burnt and have missing limbs and one them was covered with hundreds of pieces of small shrapnel.

    ?No-one is safe. This morning five and six-year old children wounded in a missile attack, were brought to our hospital. They were shaking and crying with fear. Their teacher Najwa Kholeef had been wounded in the head. A sixteen-year old boy and twenty-year old man had been killed.][/QUOTE]

    I think we can dutifully help protect Israel without
    being part of any of this. Again, I re-state, I am fully
    aware that both sides are guilty of this...but we do not help protect the Palestinains...Iran/Syria need to do their part also.
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Our relationship with Israel has effected us more than anything else in the mideast and the world. It is great to align ourselves with this cause, but the cause needs to be somewhat tempered if we are to reattain any credibility. It is almost as though whatever this country does we follow blindly along, or come in too late after carnage ensues.


    Why do we stamp made is USA on this stuff, stamp made in China, no one would know the difference anyways??
     
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You must be right, there are thousands and thousands of Jewish people here in America that must also agree with you more so in the entertainment buisness and law firms, George Bush and the American Troops have been standing up for Israel, the troops have been dying, America has been fighting the people that want all Jews wiped from the earth and the American Jews HATE BUSH, they even seem to be taking the side of the Muslim Terrorist.

    I wonder if Jon Stewert and Streisand have any realtives in Israel.
     
  4. taltos

    taltos Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    In the case of the Hollywood crowd, their embracing their Jewish roots and love for Israel comes far after their love for press exposure, money, and the socialist agenda. Ironically, much of the support for Israel comes from the Christian side, especially Roman Catholics. I think that we should support Israel since it is very helpful to have one nation that is aligned with us in that part of the globe.
     
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree and should the Islamic Religion ever become a power in America and it is very possible it might with the help of the democrats, Hollywood would be the first city to burned to the ground along with the Constitution.

    This gang of slobbering squealing politically correct cowards that just took control in Washington will someday probably nominate a Female Muslim Dressed In A Black Sheet to be our President.

    The Muslim Terrorists all over the world were as happy as pigs in sh!t at last Tuesdays election results.
    The Terrorists that attacked America on 9/11 LOVE democrats.
     
  6. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Why do we continue to support Israel? From an observing neutral-country's standpoint, Israel is as much an abuser and killer of people as any other country in the Middle East. Sure, Hezbollah fights dirty, but what is with Israel's illegal use of cluster bombs and unlawfully painting Lebanon with hidden landmines everywhere?

    The Israel special-interest group in America is WAY too influential. Why do we keep supporting a country that only 3 decades ago was caught trying to blow up an Egyptian U.S. embassy and blaming it on our enemies?

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2006
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ANY INTELLIGENT PROMINATE PUBLIC FIGURE THAT WOULD GIVE AN HONEST ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION WOULD IMMEDIATELY BE BRANDED A BIGOT, RACIST ANTI SEMITE AND THEIR LIVES WOULD BE DESTROYED.

    NO PROFESSIONAL WELL KOWN PERSON IN AMERICA WOULD DARE ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
     
  8. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap On the Game Day Roster

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    Here we live in what is probably the world's first nation-state which based its laws on secular philosophical thought, making an effort to remove religion from legal proceedings. When our constitution was drafted it was a HUGE achievement for Western society as a whole. No state religion, no (legalised) moralism.

    Then, for some reason, we helped (illegally) create and continue to support Israel, a multi-cultural, democractic nation-state with an official religious/moral agenda but in which most citizens are not strong observers of the state's religion.

    As if this wasn't enough incongruity, many American citizens believe that defense of Israel is necessary because their religion is 'closer to ours [than Islam]' in the words of one acquaintance and many other people I've met over the years. Meanwhile, American society as a whole is becoming more and more secularised but these people still claim that America is a Christian society by calling it 'our' religion.

    Islamists' #1 complain about America is support for Israel. We are fighting a 'war on terror.' Why don't we comply and see what happens, rather than this futile effort at creating a Muslim government that will (supposedly) ally with us (Iraq)??? Oh yeah, that would be giving in to the demands of terrorists. But with our government's definition of 'terrorist' wouldn't those involved with the Boston Tea Party also be terrorists? Didn't we think Britain should agree to our demands?
     
  9. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap On the Game Day Roster

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    Here we live in what is probably the world's first nation-state which based its laws on secular philosophical thought, making an effort to remove religion from legal proceedings. When our constitution was drafted it was a HUGE achievement for Western society as a whole. No state religion, no (legalised) moralism.

    Then, for some reason, we helped (illegally) create and continue to support Israel, a multi-cultural, democractic nation-state with an official religious/moral agenda but in which most citizens are not strong observers of the state's religion.

    As if this wasn't enough incongruity, many American citizens believe that defense of Israel is necessary because their religion is 'closer to ours [than Islam]' in the words of one acquaintance and many other people I've met over the years. Meanwhile, American society as a whole is becoming more and more secularised but these people still claim that America is a Christian society by calling it 'our' religion.

    Islamists' #1 complain about America is support for Israel. We are fighting a 'war on terror.' Why don't we comply and see what happens, rather than this futile effort at creating a Muslim government that will (supposedly) ally with us (Iraq)??? Oh yeah, that would be giving in to the demands of terrorists. But with our government's definition of 'terrorist' wouldn't those involved with the Boston Tea Party also be terrorists? Didn't we think Britain should agree to our demands?

    All of this seems like a nation-state-society-culture taking huge steps backwards for reasons that are unclear
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2006
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Illegal to whom? Do your homework on cluster bombs. We've been through that already.

    Also, why is it that people always point at the West as being "illegal". WTF. When Hezbollah target civilian cities where is the outcry? When Hezbollah uses schools and hospitals as cover to fire from, where's the criticism? When Hezbollah uses the UN as a shield, why is Israel blamed for colateral damage? Israel is no saint. They are guilty of numerous infractions. But the favorism to terrorist acts is unconscienable. By not laying blame on the animals the sicophants are condoning their actions, and are encouraging them to do worse.

    As for US weaponry. ??????? So we sell arms to Israel. And? The Russians and Chinese sell arms to people who use it to kill Israeli's and Americans. Is the arguement that nations should not sell arms altogether, or is it that America is the only azzhole in the world because the US is always treated differently? When an AK 47 kills an american or israeli, do we chastise Russia?
     
  11. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    "We are disturbed at the language of the resolution that is in many places biased against Israel and politically motivated," Bolton said. "Such language does not further the cause of peace and its unacceptability to the United States in previous resolutions is well known."

    Bolton said the text was wrong in equating what he called Israel's legal defense operations in Gaza with Palestinian acts of terrorism against civilians in Israel.

    "We are disturbed that there is not a single reference to terrorism in the proposed resolution, nor any condemnation of the Hamas leadership's statement that Palestinians should resume terror attacks on a broad scale, or calls by the military wing of Hamas to Muslims worldwide to strike American targets and interests," he said.



    Personally, I think Israel is sometimes far to violent for it's own good. Who am I though to speak for a people that has had its civilians mutilated by animals for its entire existence. Anyhow, Bolton explains why they Vetoed the resolution. To me, when you don't criticize terrorism, you are condoning it. Too many in the UN do not criticize terrorism. Of course, many in the UN are anti-semites too. The UN has always maintained a certain disdain for Israel. Maybe if the UN had teeth, they could've brokered a peace a long time ago, but alas, we're talking the UN here. Instead, UN inactin, or UN failure has only helped to fuel the hatred on both sides. I've maintained that there will never be peace in this conflict. Certianly not in my lifetime.
     
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This is what I mean by UN failure. This is typical of anything UN.


    UNIFIL Patrol Takes Nights Off, UN Admits Hizbullah Arming

    Despite the 20,000 troops deployed in southern Lebanon, the United Nations admits that weapons smuggling from Syria continues unhindered. A German report finds UNIFIL does not patrol after dark.

    Hizbullah terrorists are free to roam at night without fear of being identified by the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), according to a report by the German paper Der Spiegel.

    Spanish UNIFIL official Richard Ortax admitted to the paper that no patrols are carried out at night “because of the danger involved.” UNIFIL commanders said their function is to "observe changes in the behavior of the local population."

    One junior officer told Der Spiegel he was glad that his battalion had only left its camp once. "It's absurd," he said. "We landed here and set up our tent city, but since then we've only left the camp to drive around and to make sure that we're seen."

    The report cites a long tradition of UNIFIL inaction, which it says allowed time for a Finnish contingent to construct a giant sauna and an Indian contingent to decorate its base with traditional Indian artwork.

    The UNIFIL troops and the 14,000 Lebanese soldiers stationed in the region add up to a total of around 20,000 troops in the 18-by 31-mile region of southern Lebanon. Another 6,000 troops are still expected to arrive.

    The United Nations itself has admitted that Syria was still successfully smuggling arms to the Hizbullah, which neither UNIFIL nor the Lebanese army plan to stop.

    Israel has maintained overflights in the region in order to monitor and discourage the smuggling, yet UNIFIL officials condemn the continued Israeli maneuvers. The Lebanese army even attempted to shoot down Israeli fighter jets on Tuesday. France and the European Union have been accusing Israel of violating Resolution 1701 with its flights over Lebanon.

    The current state of affairs has led Israeli officials to speak about “rethinking the implementation of Israel’s commitments” made in the context of the UN-brokered cease-fire.

    The UN Security Council “noted with regret [that] non-Lebanese militias” in the country had not been disbanded or disarmed, an allusion to the Iranian and Syrian-backed Hizbullah. The statement on Tuesday was termed a “presidential statement,” which is the weakest of all available Security Council actions.

    Following the meeting, UN envoy to the region Terje Roed-Larsen explicitly admitted that Syria was actively smuggling weapons into Lebanon. He said that Lebanese government officials "have stated publicly and also in conversations with us that there have been arms coming across the border into Lebanon."

    Roed-Larsen added that Syria itself does not deny the flow of weapons, claiming only that the arms are not being dispatched by the Syrian government. "The consistent position of the government of Syria has been that, 'Yes, there might be arms smuggling over the border, but this is arms smuggling and the border is porous and very difficult to control,'" Roed-Larsen told reporters.

    Roed-Larsen ducked UN responsibility for the smuggling, saying UN troops had not been asked by the Lebanese army to monitor the border.
     
  14. taltos

    taltos Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I think that it is criminal (sarcasm turned on) for Israel to strike back and strike back harder when they are attacked. I wonder what we would do if we were surrounded by enemies dedicated to our destruction. Terrible of Israel to overfly a smuggling area to try to stop it. Time for a new symbol for troops serving with the UN "peace keepers", tits on a bull.
     
  15. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Please spare me your sarcasm. Do you deny that the Israel special interest group in Washington is more powerful than it should be? A professor of Harvard Law School recently published a paper on this, but for some reason it hasn't been picked up much by any of the major media. You know, it's possible not to be anti-semitic, but have a problem with the way our country's interests are being subverted. Zionism is separate from support for Jewish people. It is possible to support the latter without the former.

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2006
  16. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    By the way, here is the paper I mentioned. The authors assert how our foreign policy has become hijacked by special interest groups whose main interest lies in bettering Israel, sometimes at the deriment of the United States. One of the co-authors, is the academic dean at Harvard Law School.

    http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011
     
  17. Turk

    Turk Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Anyone that claims to have any kind of interest in US politics, should regard this working paper, required reading.
    If you read anything in the next week or month, let this be the one.
    FBN shared this report with us a while ago, and I printed it out and read it three times on a business trip to the West Coast, a very informative and brave work.
    By the way, before the usual "anti-semite" accusations start flying around, please pay attention to the ethnic background of the authors of this honest report.
    Real World, being critical of Israel's atrocities does not equate to sympathy for terrorism. Quite the opposite.
    Zionism's base and history is terrorism and our blind association / support of Israel is one main reason why we are where we are today.
    By the way, I find that ironic that you are being critical of UN's inaction/ weakness / lack of teeth and yet it is us, the USA that is not supporting the UN, in this case. How do you not support it, as the mightiest military power in the world, and yet be critical of its lack of teeth?
    Also, wasn't it the UN resolutions that we used as an excuse for the Iraq war? How many UN resolutions are there against Israel?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2006

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