We need better coaching

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Nov 16, 2009.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    There really were few lucky plays. We simply had a 17 point lead in the fourth and couldn't finish. Belichick may be the best coach in the history of the game, but he can't be HC, OC, DC, GM and QB coach.

    The prevent defense prevents wins, pure and simple. Manning was given time and receivers were given lots of room after we were ahead 17 points. Belichick said that this didn't happen, but the eyes have it. We talk all about the execution failures late, and we should, but players do much better if they are playing better schemes.

    The offense was 17 points ahead and simply stopped, trying to nurse a lead. We DO NOT have the team for that. We needed to continue with the same offense, taking the same chances deep late in the game as we had thus far. And the circus of the last drive was just that. Brady had to call a time out to start the drive and then call another to discuss playcalling with Belichick. WHO IS IN CHARGE OF PLAYCALLING, and why should it take two time outs to be on the same page at the start of a drive?
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I totally agree. We got conservative on both offense and defense after dominating the game. We played not to lose in the 4th quarter, instead of to win.

    Things that mystified me:

    - Going to the shotgun and abandoning play action and the run
    - Going to a prevent defense
    - Not being more aggressive going for the TD after Wilhite's INT
    - Clock management and poor use of timeouts before the 2 minute warning
    - Calling a 2 yard pass play when we needed 2 yards
    - Not allowing the Colts to score quickly so we could get the ball back with enough time for a FG
  3. jbb9s

    jbb9s In the Starting Line-Up

    the timeouts were huge. obviously it prevented BB from the challenge....

    Why was the Faulk catch not reviewed in the booth. When the play ended, the clock read 1:57?
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Because the play started at 2:08, so technically it came before the 2 minute warning. Automatic review doesn't apply to plays that start before the 2 minute warning, even if they end inside of 2 minutes. Pats didn't have a timeout to challenge.
  5. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

    Any play that starts before the 2 minute warning is a coaches challenge.

    Running out of timeouts is not something you expect of a BB coached team but it mattered little from a challenge perspective. There was a 0% chance that any ref is overruling that play in the Polian/Manning dome.
  6. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Hard to disagree, though I'm sure someone will.
  7. Jimke

    Jimke In the Starting Line-Up

    I don't think you can absolve BB from any blame. Last year BB did
    an amazing coach job. This year not so hot.

    With regard to the other coaches, the Patriots have an economy coaching staff. They have coordinators who come cheap and assistant coaches who
    were coaching assistants for the most part.
  8. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    Defensively they need to change their philosophy against high powered offenses. The bend but don't break works until the team is gassed. I'd rather see them take more chances and have more left at the end. 03, 06, & 09 are proof of this especially in the dome.

    Offensively the red zone play calling was again suspect but the call that absolutely killed me was first and ten on the last drive you call a draw. That was fooling nobody. They should have gone play action or fake the draw and go down the field 10-15 yards with the Colts covering everything short. Being super conservative on downs 1-3 caused the need for 4th down.
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I would have liked to see the Pats run play action and take a shot down the field in the 4th quarter. Indy was crowding the line and keying on the short stuff. We killed them going deep with play action in the first half.
  10. jbb9s

    jbb9s In the Starting Line-Up

    Thanks. thats what i kind of figured but i have been too upset to look into it.

    The time out we burned coming out for that drive is idiotic. I have never seen anything like that. I think O'brien may be over his head.
  11. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #61 Jersey

    The problem with your argument(s) is that you're making sweeping assessments based on ONE GAME. If there was a pattern leading to consecutive losses or if we were out of the running for a playoff spot, then you might have a point.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    What about the Jets and Broncos games? Our play calling and game plan was ridiculous in both. That accounts for 33% of our games so far.

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    The playcalling is very inconsistent. I thought it was brilliant at times and then awful at others. Late game it was beyond awful. That needs to change.

    That's got to be expected though with a rookie OC. In JMD's first year he was just as bad IMO. Then towards the end of '06 I was really impressed with him. O'brien needs to get it together come playoff time.
  14. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Agreed, As I stated in another thread, second half adjustments in our 3 losses, we've been outscored 47-10. The Pats great offense has scored a grand total of 10 points in the second half of our losses. And that came last night. All three games we had half time leads (6 against the Jets, 10 against the Broncos and Colts). Last night, 4th quarter leads of 17 and 13 points (with 4 minutes to go). This falls on the coaches IMO.
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    And that doesn't include the games we won against Baltimore and the Phins were we failed to capitalize on chances to put the game out of reach and let the other team back in it in the 2nd half.
  16. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #61 Jersey

    Nonsense. Both games went down to the wire despite Brady's rustiness. We've lost three games in the final moments, all of them on the road, and had led in all of them. A "ridiculous game plan" = getting pounded by the opponent. That hasn't happened yet this season.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
  17. TP76

    TP76 On the Roster

    Defensively they were in the dreaded 4-2-5 nickel, with smallish, speed ends (TBC/Burgess/AD)... for what looked like the entire game. Frankly, if they never run that defensive base again, it'll be too soon. I didn't see or remember any prevent... but my DVR ran out in the mid-late 4th. This was the first I've seen it used or at least notice it's wholesale use. 3-4/3-3 nickel should have figured in the gameplan IMO - that's what Manning has struggled with in the past (as recently as the 49er game - earlier this year).
  18. lostjumper

    lostjumper Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Completely agree with the original posters comments. The obvious prevent defense killed me. As soon as we started employing it, I knew we were in trouble. And the play calling...yeah.

    When you go over the game, I think you will see that the patriots dominated quite a bit of it, and seemingly had the better players. Our coaching let us down, and I'm not sure I can remember saying that in the last 7-8 years.
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    It's not done for economy, it's done because they are coaching Belichick's offense and defense and not their own and he prefers to work with personnel he's taught and evaluated himself within his system. They'd have paid RAC and Charlie to stay. They let them go because they knew they were itching for their shot (to fail I might add) and BB doesn't like to deny anyone that once they've earned it because he long worked for a guy who did.

    Bill has total control and final say in all football matters here. Staff, player selection, scheme, game plans, play calling, USE OF PREVENT DEFENSE. If you want to criticize those it's fine. Just don't try and play the hiding behind the coordinators card 'cause it won't work here. If there are deficiencies anywhere within this organization they are Bill's responsibility.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
  20. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Unfortunately our crack OC failed to double team Mathis who singlehandidly stopped two drives. Even Collingsworth said Kazur was owned by Mathis.
    Why can't the Pats coaches adjust to game matchups?

    The timeouts wasted late were pure Hermanesque in the magnitude of failure.
    No excuses....and it has been a pattern all year.

    BB may be a great strategist but as a game day field general he has been shown vulnerable. Championship teams need first rate OC's and DC's and right now Pats have neither
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