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We haven't done anything but get worse

Discussion in 'The Practice Squad' started by tonyto3690, Mar 26, 2013.

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  1. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    Last year it's arguably a different tune if gronk, talib, and chandler are healthy. However every team deals with injuries, including the sb champs ravens who were without their best corner, starting ss had broken ribs, former dpoy was a shell of himself, star dt was barely function and so on. They still smoked us in our own house and I'm pretty sure the niners, packers, falcons and Seahawks all would have beaten us as well.

    So what have we done to improve? Our offense has gotten worse, which is okay assuming it gets worse because we invest in improving the defense... Which we have barely done anything besides barely maintain the status quo.

    The only way you could possibly believe we will better this season is if you believe MULTIPLE of the following will happen.

    1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks
    2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season.
    3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season.
    4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio.
    5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss.
    6. We manage to trade for a big time star player
    7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap
    8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison
    9. Talib stays healthy the entire season

    For me there are WAY too many "if he stays healthy for the first time in his entire career" and "if we get extremely lucky and hit massive home runs" for my taste. Right now we are a worse team and a lot of things have to go right o just break even, let alone be better.

    We have gaping holes on the dl, serious corner depth issues, questionable safety play behind McCourty and are still incapable of covering good pass catching tight ends and running backs. On top of that, our offense which won us most of our games in large part thanks to welker is praying amendola can stay healthy (doubtful) and can even come close to the production welker gave. AND we currently have no other real wideouts on the roster that we need to save cap space for and address somehow.

    Im not saying we are going to be bad, but right now I don't see much beyond a first or second round loss in disappointing fashion. Our defense getting lit up in the secondary, no pass rush, and our team unable to run to win when it counts. Sorry it's not being a pessimist to think we can't solve these issues with two top 60 picks and limited cap space and free agents available.
  2. Archeryaddict12

    Archeryaddict12 Rookie

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    This team has gotten better. Offense doesn't win championships, D does! Guess what, our d is friggen better! The offense will be huge like it always is. This team will be closer to a 14-2 record than 12-4.
  3. Walpole Pats Fan

    Walpole Pats Fan Rookie

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    I don't post very much, but let's not all go too nuts as it's MARCH. Yes, the team isn't as good on paper as it was in January, but that is to be expected as we're a couple weeks into free agency and the draft is a month away. Moreover, every team needs their players to be healthy. It's not like the Patriots are the only team with players that have had some injury history. Let's not stress ourselves out too much before we even get to the 90 man roster. If the roster is garbage in July then I'll be a little more concerned, but I have a feeling the team will make some solid additions and maybe even cause some excitement during the draft again.
  4. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I personally think in an offseason like this, being able to maintain what you have for the most part is alot better compared to other top AFC teams. Welker/Lloyd are the only big losses and we still have to see what DA has to offer, plus potentially adding guys like Sanders or Lloyd himself. I think we did enough to keep our offense an elite unit. Defensively, Wilson could make a huge impact similar to Talib's. Most agree that Talib didn't do anything special last year and wasn't a shutdown corner, but certain things he brought were sorely needed, and that sounds alot like what Wilson could bring. So potentially, we may have gotten alot better on that itself. Ideally I'd like to add another passrusher and reciever, THEN I'd say we most likely have gotten better.

    I think you made a good point initially about injuries. To me the Ravens proved last year that losing Gronk/Talib is no excuse for coming up short. IMO, we just need to become tougher as a team and more resilient. There are holes at certain position but lets face it,, EVERYONE has holes especially the 2012 Ravens. Plays like Asante and Welker's drops, Blackburn and Tyree outjumping our stars (albeit one hobbled) for key catches, Brady's ill advised safeties and picks which seemingly never used to happen in postseason, lack of a run game in big games where guys like Antowain Smith used to be more of a threat, losing turnover battles/almost never forcing key turnovers when we used to win them/force them, etc etc pretty much highlight what's been missing since 2004.
  5. Dingleberry

    Dingleberry Rookie

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    SInce 13-3 is equidistant from 12-4 and 14-2, that leaves 15-1 or 16-0.

    I don't see it.

    Sorry, I am painfully literal. :p
  6. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Name one team that doesn't have a need.....just one team that is 100% complete at this point?


    Amendola will not be Moss and the Pats and any other logical person doesn't expect him to. He really needs to replace 75% of Welkers catches and if he does I bet he meets or exceeds Welkers total yards and will most likely score more TD's than Welker. Gronk definitely needs to be healthy for the entire Playoffs. Hernandez needs to stay healthy and hit the Jugs machine. Definitely need WR's but I'm sure the Pats are aware of the situation.

    Why does Ridley have to have a significantly better season? Vereen will clearly have a bigger role in the offense especially in hurry up and 3rd down situations. It will be interesting to see how Washington will be used in the offense if at all.

    There is no reason to think Jones and Hightower won't have huge second seasons, barring injury. We get our best coverage LB back in Fletcher. I really like Bequette and see no reason why he shouldn't be able to grow into the sub end rusher role. I'm sure they will bring in a vet as insurance.

    Wilson doesn't have to be Rodney Harrison....just needs to lead and set the tone in the backend. Talib has to stay healthy, especially down the stretch and through the playoffs. Hopefully Dennard is back for TC or glassman drinks some milk and becomes the player he is talented enough to become (Dowling). But I'm sure CB depth will be addressed as well via FA/Draft or trade before camp.

    I don't see gaping holes in the DL and this draft is deepest at DL.

    But all of your injury related must haves hold true throughout the league for every team. I think 10 mil in cap space is pretty good this time of year and having the ability to restructure a couple of contracts, if needed for the right signing, is a pretty envious place to be for 90% of the league.

    Not sure why folks get worried in March? If we have all these issues going into January then you can chalk me down as worried.
  7. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Thank You... for my daily dose of PESSIMISM!
  8. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    I think I'll trust BB and the coaches in their evaluation of the players they've signed so far.

    Pats were a couple of injuries and a few plays from going to the SB last year. They got younger and signed key players back along with some new additions.

    Denver has Paymeaton the choker.Hope he doesn't get Wes killed.

    SF and Seattle have QB's that teams have a season's worth of film on now.

    Miami has signed to BIG $$$$ a couple of players. BFD. They still have no Brady at the helm.

    Ravens were SB champs and are in worse shape now.

    Pats look to have improved their return game with Washington which could be big in tight field position games this coming season.

    Pats still have their core OL back which is huge on offense. A field stretching WR and maybe a RB for depth are mainly all that the O needs to be almost unstoppable. (if healthy).

    Defense, mainly pass rush, is still a work in progress. If Pats D improves just a little over last season, the Pats will be serious contenders for another SB run.
  9. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    I hear the scenery in New England is lovely in the fall. May I suggest you start a company that takes vacationers on tours. You'll enjoy that much better than following our crappy football team.
  10. JMC00

    JMC00 Rookie

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    You know what I love is how people make it out like Gronk, Herandez and Amendola continually miss half a season.

    Amendola missed 5 games last year and missed 15 games in 2011 but had the new IR rule been in effect for '11 he never would have missed that many. But yet his first two seasons 16 games in 2010 & 14 games in 2009 (missed the first two games of that season, not sure but it is possible those were healthy inactives)

    Hernandez missed 2 games in '11 because of a knee sprain (yet people were talking about him missing 4-5 games), 6 games last year because Edelman fell on him. Not even gonna dignify the 2 he missed his rookie season as the Pats had the 1st round bye locked up and he was held out of the last 2 games but probably could have went.

    Gronk played two full seasons and then Sergio Brown decided that he finally wanted to make a play but it was on an extra point that didn't mean anything.

    If these guys missed games like Bob Sanders (only played in more than 6 games twice his whole career and never played a full 16 game season) then I might think there was a point to be made.


    Also the team hasn't gotten worse.

    Patrick Chung out, Adrian Wilson in. Upgrade

    Armond Armstead is an addition to the pass rush. Just adding another pass rusher was an upgrade.

    Jake Ballard is an upgrade over Fells and Hoomanawanui especially in the receiving game. He could be the starting TE on probably a 1/3 of the NFL teams maybe even more.

    Got a good kick off return guy in Washington, an area where the Pats ranked 25th. You know what Seattle was ranked in kick off returns last season? #2, which was all Leon Washington. Upgrade.

    Re-signed the #1 & #3 CB. Depth will be addressed the more free agency goes on and possibly the draft.

    Re-signed Vollmer and also boosted the depth at Tackle by signing Svitek.

    Vereen will now see more snaps with Woodhead leaving. While Woodhead was a solid dependable guy, I think Vereen can offer more in that role.

    The only area the Pats have gotten worse in is WR but that's because they haven't really made a move in that area outside of bringing in Amendola and Jones. I expect that to change in the coming weeks, whether it be through the draft or free agency.
  11. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    By the way Ridley was 7th in the league in rushing last season. Above guys like CJ, Gore, Rice and Forte.....4.4 YPC and 12 TD's if he does significantly better then we will have an all pro on our hands.....yay us!
  12. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Free agency is for patching up minor holes, not really building the foundation of a team, and our past 2 season teams have been pretty set already.

    The draft will help, and free agency will help--but the team itself didn't have nearly the amount of holes that the OP may be suggesting. Besides a couple/few positions that needed some additional talent/depth, they were pretty close to winning the whole thing in both of the past 2 seasons.

    I'm not sure where the pessimism lies?

    OL--solid depth/talent with Mankins/Vollmer likely being healthier
    RB--solid depth/talent
    TE--solid depth/talent with the addition of Ballard for next season
    WR--needs addressing
    QB--solid depth/talent

    DL--needs addressing but still in okay shape
    LB--solid depth/talent with the addition of Fletcher for next season
    CB--solid depth/talent with the addition of Talib for a full season, and the expectation of a healthy Dowling
    S--solid depth/talent with the addition of Adrian Wilson, and McCourty for a full season


    All I'm seeing is solid positional groupings with the same amount of minor issues that every team has with a couple of positions in WR/DL.

    Any other moves at this point in both FA and the draft will pretty much be bonus moves, at least for the most part. We will get better through the moves that are left to make in both the draft/FA, but in all actuality, the team could definitely compete at a high level right now--even with the holes at WR and DL.
  13. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    How many is multiple?

    We had one significant loss from a roster that has been to one SB and two AFC Championship games in the last two years. And guess what, we have filled Wes' loss with DA.

    So in order to improve all we have to do is bridge the difference between Wes and DA(plus we need to replace a few depth pieces that left too like Woody and Thomas). Any other additions wether it be via free agency,the draft, improvement of youth, and/or added health of those here already can than be considered improvement.




    1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks - I think this alone would put us over the top.
    2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season. - I think it would be safe to expect significant improvement from Vareen, Chandler and Hightower. If Ridley significantly improved he would be one of our best runners ever but some improvement is expected. I don't see where any of this team's success relies on bequette, tavon Wilson, or Dowling one bit.
    3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season. - not crazy to hope for but we have gotten by without each at times the past few years. So really the hope more is that if they get hurt they be back for the playoffs.
    4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio. This happens and we might go 19-0
    5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss. This happens Brady might throw 50-1 and see above for what I think that would do.
    6. We manage to trade for a big time star player. - This would help
    7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap - don't we always.
    8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison - our secondary would be nasty if he does.
    9. Talib stays healthy the entire season - just healthy at the right time not necessarily all season would work too.
  14. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I actually think that at least one/if not both of those positions may already be taken, SBB.

    Considering that Vereen and L.Washington will be making up for that 3rd down position, I see no other additions needed or sought after here. We had one guy who looked good waiting in the wings, and added another proven 3rd down back in Washington.

    The interior depth/backup position of the OL may be taken care of too with McDonald or even Cannon may see some time there finally, considering that Svitek will be an outside tackle. I'd agree that they may add a smaller insignificant piece later down the road, or they may even take an OL pick in the draft as a future prospect. Either way, these 2 positions are locked up in my opinion.
  15. 50-yard-line

    50-yard-line Rookie

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    Last year at this time we didn't have Jones, Hightower, Dennard, A Wilson, T Wilson, Armstead, Vega, Talib, Amendola or Ballard.

    I disagree.
  16. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    We must really suck. Not only do we need two starters from the draft, but they have to be impact starters. Doomed I say, doomed.
  17. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Agreed, I just didn't want to ignore what else was lost.
  18. Brady6

    Brady6 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    The way I see it our only 'worse' position is WR when comparing the 2012 opening day roster to our current.

    I'd expect the following positions to improve simply based on development of younger players,

    RB - Ridley, Vereen, Bolden
    LT - Solder
    C - Wendell
    DE - Jones, Bequette, Francis
    LOLB - Hightower
    RCB - Dennard
    SS - Tavon Wilson

    I'd expect the following positions to be improved by health.

    LB - Fletcher
    CB - Dowling
    LG - Mankins
    RT - Vollmer

    And then these positions to be improved through players either not on the active roster at the start of 2012 or playing different positions.

    TE - Ballard
    DT - Armstead
    DE - Benard, Vega
    LCB - Talib
    FS - McCourty
    SS - Adrian Wilson
    Kick Returner - Washington

    Also players like McCourty, Spikes, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Deaderick, Love, Cannon are all still very young and could further develop.

    So I disagree I actually think when comparing what we had day 1 of 2012 to now we are in much better shape and we still have weeks of free agency, the draft and UDFA to improve.
  19. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    The Pats have improved their team in many ways, and they're setting themselves up to further better their team in the vast majority of free agency that still remains and the draft.

    It's late March and real football doesn't start for almost six months. There's no reason anybody needs to make a thread like this.
  20. RIpats88

    RIpats88 Rookie

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    Wide reciever is still a LARGE question mark...we went from Wes welker/Lloyd which according to Belichick wasnt a good enough receiving corp

    to right now Amendola and ???? we need someone to replace Lloyd's production and/or be a better deep threat/sideline threat.

    and lets not act like Belichick hasnt left the team with large holes...2011 he cut every decent safety we had and replaced them with nobody

    I dont trust us filling that need in the draft
  21. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    I don't have time to respond to every individual posts, so I'll just hit a couple key things.

    1. I'm a big time Patriots fan. Being realistic and calling it how I see it doesn't make me any less of a fan. I'm not complaining we didn't overpay for Reed or free agent A, B, C. I'm not complaining about not winning a championship. I'm stating that our team has limited resources left and we have done nothing but lose all of our WRs and replace them with one extremely injury prone player who may or may not click with Brady. Some of them might be back, but that is just going to take up a diminishing amount of cap space we have left that we need to invest on defense.

    2. Adrian Wilson could very well be cut before the season even starts. Sure, Chung was awful, but that doesn't mean Wilson will be great. He was awful last year. Not, mediocre, not underachieving, he was awful. He wasn't even able to start on the Cardinals- a team he put together a borderline HOF career. Expecting him to be great and solidify our safety problem is pretty asinine.

    3. Our DL is in fine shape? No. We have a DE who is a massive liability against the run and is a mediocre pass rusher. And we have a DT who can't do anything against 1vs1 matchups except get pushed backwards 3 yards and we're lucky if he falls forward and occasionally wraps up a RB.

    4. Our LBs are pretty solid. But we still need a cover linebacker because TE's and RBs lit us up all year and Mayo, HIghtower and Spikes will never become good cover linebackers. Fletcher is a nice thought but expecting him to be a big time contributer is a stretch.

    5. CB, solid depth/talent, really? Talib is so grossly overrated. He had a big time effect on our defense because he allowed McCourty to play safety and it coincided with Dennard emerging, allowing Arrington to play in the slot. Any decent corner (or even mediocre) could have done what he did.

    Dennard could very likely be in jail.
    Dowling is made out of glass and even when healthy was behind Arrington, Dennard and even Cole in the depth chart
    Talib is also made of glass


    6. S, just like CB is pretty horrible outside of McCourty. We got a whole lot of mediocre #3 and #4s. Maybe Adrian rebounds on a team with a much worse pass rush, worse corners and has a better season, but pardon me for being skeptical that he can be good on a defense that is worse than his previous one in almost every way.

    Gregory is a decent #2 free safety who should never start.

    Tavon Wilson has been a massive disappointment. They drafted him so unexpectedly high (like Ridley) I hoped they had seen something special in him and he would perform like it. Instead our #48th overall pick was a dimeback who rarely did anything but be a liability in coverage and get some lucky tipped passes to drop in his lap.



    The 2011 SB was an anomaly due to lockout and that team was hilariously undertalented. The most undrafted players on a SB roster in NFL history.

    Last year we were significantly better and still got smoked by the Ravens

    This belief of "well we got decently far in the playoffs, therefore we can't improve in any way and we are good enough to win a SB" is completely ridiculous. Sorry, the Niners talent is miles ahead of the Patriots.

    Another season of "lets hope and pray Brady can go berserk and win every game for us almost by himself" is not something I wanted. I expected us to let Welker go, even perhaps vollmer, and take that money and invest it in the defense. So far we haven't done anything besides stay afloat and add a pretty mediocre safety who is just a big name and could easily get cut before playing a single game for us.
  22. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's a huge difference between completely ignoring an existing hole and cutting two players that he doesn't think make the team better. Neither Meriweather nor Sanders was any good in 2011, and both were on new teams by 2012 teams. Belichick also made the decision to cut those two after seeing them in training camp. It was a much more educated decision than any choice to not make significant changes at WR between now and early September, which isn't happening.
  23. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    As awful as Merriweather was that season, Sanders wasn't THAT bad.

    And you can't honestly believe neither was better than Sergio "here is a free 80 yard PI" Brown.

    There is still time to fill holes, but with two draft picks and ~10 million in cap space (3 for draft picks + 2 for emergency signings leaves about 5 million) to sign a free agent or two, expecting us to fill holes at #2 WR, #3 WR, #4 WR, #2 CB, #2 S, Cover LB is pretty unrealistic.
  24. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    49er's and Seachickens are pretty close to that. :(
  25. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    False. He started 14 of the 15 games he played last season. I don't think he's the savior of the secondary, but saying he wasn't a starter is blatantly incorrect.

    The few people that take you seriously won't anymore if you keep talking like this.

    Can you tell me next week's lottery numbers? We probably know what Mayo is at this stage (always by the player, doesn't always make a play on the ball), but one year from a rookie linebacker where he was playing with a hamstring injury is hardly a indicator that he'll never be good at something.

    I agree he's not as awesome as some say he is, but would you rather that they not sign a CB? It's the same CB group that they had plenty of success with when they were on the field, and there's still plenty of time to add another player or two to make sure Cole isn't the first guy on the field in case of injury.

    Again. Rookie years are a terrible predictor of overall success. By definition, the third safety is more often than not going to be a dime back, and a third safety is hardly a terrible season for a rookie safety.


    Citation please.

    The Pats absolutely can improve, and they only position they've really gotten worse at is WR. They also have five and a half months to improve, so this thread is ridiculously short-sighted, and overall a pretty crappy thread.
  26. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    Oddly enough, I cannot argue anything on what you said.

    I do think that Wilson has more left in the tank that you do though.

    Why BB didn't go after Awesome/wa, or another good cb...I have no idea. Kind of shocked that he didn't. Abraham might sign. Sanders might sign.
  27. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm so worried we aren't ready for that game we have tomorrow and wonder why we kept 10mill of cap space for nothing.
  28. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    QB - same
    RB - about the same (Washington is pretty much Woodhead but older and faster)
    WR - downgrade from Welker -> Amendola, but I'll take Jones over Branch; overall a bit worse
    TE - upgrade with Ballard coming on board
    OL - the same
    DL - upgrade with Armstead (we hope)
    LB - upgrade with Fletcher coming back
    CB - the same, but that was an improvement with Talib in there
    S - upgrade with Wilson
    K/P - the same
    K/P return - upgrade with Washington, one of the best in the business

    I see one area that could be considered a downgrade: WR. But no way are they finished there, so I expect that to be a net plus. And the DL should improve, as I believe the Pats will add Abraham when all is said and done.
  29. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If we're comparing on paper in March, we are better at many positions and HUGELY worse at WR. At this point, even with a minor signing, I would consider drafting TWO wide receivers, hoping to get one 2013 contributor.
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    In addition to bringing in a half dozen wide receivers, we would like to add a pass-rusher, backup corner(s), backup DT, and a backup OG.
  30. Joey007

    Joey007 Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    You know, something about that Meriweather-Disciple always gave me a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach that he'd find a way to screw us over. I just didn't expect him to be on the other team.
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