We got all that we could...accept it

[Hardboiled]

where are people getting this Vrabel was going to get cut?? How about release and sign back up for less money?? So we basically gave away one of our better LB's for nothing.. Fn crazy!

No, there was a cap hit if he was cut.

 

[Dragda]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

I wish I could say that this trade made sense to me. The best thing about it is that it frees up a large amount of cap money. In fact, you could look at the trade that way--that it gives us pick #34 and $20 million to spend. But, if doesn't at least bring us Peppers and a good WR in free agency, I'm going to be very disappointed.

It makes sense. KC got a great deal, but we had to deal him. We franchised him hoping we could get something for him instead of nothing. Wanting anything more is just greed. I think the Vrabel throw in was a salary dump.

 

[mcsully]

No, there was a cap hit if he was cut.

There are other options.. fact is he was given away for nothing..

 

[ctpatsfan77]

There are other options.. fact is he was given away for nothing..

For all practical purposes, I guess so. It sounds like the deal was "We'll give you a 6th (or 7th) if we don't work something out with Cassel."

 

[Double G]

"And I agree back. Zolack vs. Smerlas is like being offered the following execution choices: would you rather be shot (Zolack) or dismembered while awake (Smerlas)?"

Or, be shot (Zo) vs dying like the hit and run driver from Saw III did; strapped to a machine and having your head, arms and legs twisted 180 degrees all at the same time (thats gotta hurt)......................

 

[JSn]

"And I agree back. Zolack vs. Smerlas is like being offered the following execution choices: would you rather be shot (Zolack) or dismembered while awake (Smerlas)?"

Or, be shot (Zo) vs dying like the hit and run driver from Saw III did; strapped to a machine and having your head, arms and legs twisted 180 degrees all at the same time (thats gotta hurt)......................

I pick not being a football fan above all of those. I never knew there was such risk in fanhood...

 

[DaBruinz]

The reality of this was that the Bucs and the Lions made offers and they obviously weren't acceptable. That left only 1 real team to trade with... the Chiefs.

If we waited any longer, we would have gotten even less and lost out on some good FA's.

This 2nd was as good as a mid-late 1st in any other draft year.

How else do you see this shaking out knowing that the Chiefs were the only team offering something as high as the #34?

and before you say "but Vrabel was included" realize that this was probably the only way we even got this much.

Horsesh!t. There are several other teams who have QB issues.

The deal isn't that great and for you to sit there and pretend like the Pats couldn't have gotten more is just a joke. And to say that adding Vrabel was the only way to get the second makes you look like an even bigger fool. Sorry. It does.

This is a bad deal for the Pats. They lose at least ONE year of eligibility on the player because of the rules regarding picks outside the 1st round. Not to mention the leadership that Vrabel brought to the lockerroom.

What I believe is that Belichick and Kraft did Pioli and the Hunt Family a favor. Knowing the situation that the Chiefs are in, I believe that the BB and Kraft purposely took a lower than market value offer.

From the Chiefs perspective, its a steal. Plain and simple. Even taking into consideration the 18 million in cap room they re-couped by not having Vrabel and Cassel on the roster.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Vrabel was outplayed by Seau ... he had tighter coverage, better lateral movement and better overall play than Vrabel. Vrabel has had a fine career here but his value on this team was in the locker room. Our 3rd down play sucked plain and simple. How we got to 11-5 with our CB's and suck-assed QB pressure was pure genius of Belichick. Vrabel's best days as a Patriot will be in the new Patriots hall ... it is what's best for the team that he moves on. Hopefully Bruschi retires or is relegated to the bench ... it's time to move on.

 

[mcsully]

Horsesh!t. There are several other teams who have QB issues.

The deal isn't that great and for you to sit there and pretend like the Pats couldn't have gotten more is just a joke. And to say that adding Vrabel was the only way to get the second makes you look like an even bigger fool. Sorry. It does.

This is a bad deal for the Pats. They lose at least ONE year of eligibility on the player because of the rules regarding picks outside the 1st round. Not to mention the leadership that Vrabel brought to the lockerroom.

What I believe is that Belichick and Kraft did Pioli and the Hunt Family a favor. Knowing the situation that the Chiefs are in, I believe that the BB and Kraft purposely took a lower than market value offer.

From the Chiefs perspective, its a steal. Plain and simple. Even taking into consideration the 18 million in cap room they re-couped by not having Vrabel and Cassel on the roster.

k.. I had to reread what you wrote.. Because I know most of the time I disagree with you.. BUT DAMN BRO.. I'm 100% behind you and agree with you!!

you are absolutely correct.. BB/Pats were fleeced

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

No. You don't get it. It's not an option of two 2's...or just a one.....IT"S MANDATORY. FRANCHISE TAG RULES STATE IN ORDER TO SIGN SOMEONE'S NON-EXCLUSIVE FRANCHISE PLAYER....THE TEAM THAT SIGNS HIM GIVES UP 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS. NO CHOICE. NO OPTIONS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Like I said, I wanted Peppers too. It's over. You don't give up 2 first round picks for anyone in the NFL.

Let me ask you, for Peppers (if you could work out a deal for him), would you give up 2 first rounders?

You are just plain WRONG on this. Its not true. It wasn't true when Tebucky went to New Orleans. Its not true now. Teams can negotiate the compensation if they so chose and notify the league of said compensation.

 

[Raymond]

What I believe is that Belichick and Kraft did Pioli and the Hunt Family a favor. Knowing the situation that the Chiefs are in, I believe that the BB and Kraft purposely took a lower than market value offer.

I have a hard time believing BB would purposely weaken the Pats in helping out Pioli.

 

[mcsully]

Vrabel was outplayed by Seau ... he had tighter coverage, better lateral movement and better overall play than Vrabel. Vrabel has had a fine career here but his value on this team was in the locker room. Our 3rd down play sucked plain and simple. How we got to 11-5 with our CB's and suck-assed QB pressure was pure genius of Belichick. Vrabel's best days as a Patriot will be in the new Patriots hall ... it is what's best for the team that he moves on. Hopefully Bruschi retires or is relegated to the bench ... it's time to move on.

your aware he had a shoulder issue correct.. And to say Seau outplayed him.> you got to be kidding.. Vrabel is a 3 down LB who has a lot more responsibility


WTF is everyone drinking here.. Stop with the ridiculous excuses about the trade.. It was not a good trade.. It was piss poor

Schuab was worth 2 #2's
Culpepper and Feeley were worth #2s

If you tell me these 3 are as good or better than Cassel your on CRACK!

 

[mcsully]

I have a hard time believing BB would purposely weaken the Pats in helping out Pioli.

Unfort its the truth....

 

[RayClay]

I have a hard time believing BB would purposely weaken the Pats in helping out Pioli.

He's just a soft touch.

 

[Blizzzard]

Horsesh!t. There are several other teams who have QB issues.

The deal isn't that great and for you to sit there and pretend like the Pats couldn't have gotten more is just a joke. And to say that adding Vrabel was the only way to get the second makes you look like an even bigger fool. Sorry. It does.

This is a bad deal for the Pats. They lose at least ONE year of eligibility on the player because of the rules regarding picks outside the 1st round. Not to mention the leadership that Vrabel brought to the lockerroom.

What I believe is that Belichick and Kraft did Pioli and the Hunt Family a favor. Knowing the situation that the Chiefs are in, I believe that the BB and Kraft purposely took a lower than market value offer.

From the Chiefs perspective, its a steal. Plain and simple. Even taking into consideration the 18 million in cap room they re-couped by not having Vrabel and Cassel on the roster.

I always respected you as a poster, but after I read:
"What I believe is that Belichick and Kraft did Pioli and the Hunt Family a favor. Knowing the situation that the Chiefs are in, I believe that the BB and Kraft purposely took a lower than market value offer."
I seriously wonder if you have ever seen how BB and Kraft do business.

For you to call me a fool, then go on and make a statement like that, I wonder if you are off your meds

Am I happy about losing Vrabel? Hell No. I can live with it for whatever reasons they had behind it.
But this comment also makes me wonder if this trade gave you a stroke thats now manifesting in your reasoning: "Not to mention the leadership that Vrabel brought to the lockerroom."
Thats true of course, but do you think that somehow we will now be lacking leadership in the clubhouse?

Take this quote: "They lose at least ONE year of eligibility on the player because of the rules regarding picks outside the 1st round."
Absolutely true! But doesn't there stand a chance that an extra 2nd rounder (maybe not this one, but one of them) will be used to flip for a veteran in a trade.... or even to move up in the first round... perhaps to the top of the round where we actually gain a year of eligibility?

Seriously man, you are a smart guy and have always made sense before. I think the exctiement and confusion of this has just gotten to you.

Sit back, chill the fluck out, and have a brew. you will feel better in the morning (or at least after the draft)

 

[DaBruinz]

I have a hard time believing BB would purposely weaken the Pats in helping out Pioli.

Did he really weaken the Patriots though? They now have another 18 million in cap space to use for signing players and extending guys like Wilfork and Mankins. Guys who are more important to the long term future of this team than either Cassel or Vrabel.

I am a big Vrabel fan, but if we stop for a minute and think about it, he is 34 and counted 4.4 million against the cap. The Pats have Woods, TBC, Redd, Guyton, Craig, Crable, and Robertson who, put together, come out to be about 4.1 million against the cap. And if BB feels they can provide similar pressure from the OLB position while also getting pressure from the ILB position with Mayo and whomever else it there, BB might not see it as the Pats having been weakened. In fact, considering that they could add a Bodden and a Curry now, he may view the team as being in a stronger position.

And he did this while helping Pioli.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Vrabel is a 3 down LB who has a lot more responsibility

Based on his play in 2008, I do not think Vrabel is a 3 down LB anymore and even if fully healthy in 2009, he still is not a 3 down backer anymore.

 

[Blizzzard]

Did he really weaken the Patriots though? They now have another 18 million in cap space to use for signing players and extending guys like Wilfork and Mankins. Guys who are more important to the long term future of this team than either Cassel or Vrabel.

I am a big Vrabel fan, but if we stop for a minute and think about it, he is 34 and counted 4.4 million against the cap. The Pats have Woods, TBC, Redd, Guyton, Craig, Crable, and Robertson who, put together, come out to be about 4.1 million against the cap. And if BB feels they can provide similar pressure from the OLB position while also getting pressure from the ILB position with Mayo and whomever else it there, BB might not see it as the Pats having been weakened. In fact, considering that they could add a Bodden and a Curry now, he may view the team as being in a stronger position.

And he did this while helping Pioli.

Didn't you imply like 1.3 nanoseconds ago, that getting rid of Vrabel in this trade was a very bad thing?

Now I stand by my "off your meds" comment. Schizophrenia it starting to menifest itself :confused3:

You do realize that you are saying the same things as Curran right?

 

[DaBruinz]

I always respected you as a poster, but after I read:
"What I believe is that Belichick and Kraft did Pioli and the Hunt Family a favor. Knowing the situation that the Chiefs are in, I believe that the BB and Kraft purposely took a lower than market value offer."
I seriously wonder if you have ever seen how BB and Kraft do business.

I have been watching how the Pats and Krafts do business. And Kraft has taken lesser deals to strengthen bonds between himself and other figures for future use. And considering that the Hunt family will be playing a big role in the upcoming CBA negotiations, I could see Kraft OK'ing this deal for future leverage.

For you to call me a fool, then go on and make a statement like that, I wonder if you are off your meds

You already proved yourself the fool in your initial post. You just don't have much in the way of business understanding as you think you do.

Am I happy about losing Vrabel? Hell No. I can live with it for whatever reasons they had behind it.
But this comment also makes me wonder if this trade gave you a stroke thats now manifesting in your reasoning: "Not to mention the leadership that Vrabel brought to the lockerroom."
Thats true of course, but do you think that somehow we will now be lacking leadership in the clubhouse?

Bruschi clearly thought so in his email reply to Mike Reiss. Or didn't you bother to read that?

Take this quote: "They lose at least ONE year of eligibility on the player because of the rules regarding picks outside the 1st round."
Absolutely true! But doesn't there stand a chance that an extra 2nd rounder (maybe not this one, but one of them) will be used to flip for a veteran in a trade.... or even to move up in the first round... perhaps to the top of the round where we actually gain a year of eligibility?

Is there a chance? Yep. Just like there is a chance that I'll win the MegaMillions tonight since I bought tickets. Doesn't mean that its likely to happen. And, considering that the Pats would actually be giving up 4 years (1 player) to add 1 year to another player, it makes it look even worse.

Seriously man, you are a smart guy and have always made sense before. I think the exctiement and confusion of this has just gotten to you.

Sit back, chill the fluck out, and have a brew. you will feel better in the morning (or at least after the draft)

If you stopped and thought about the other business ramifications you would understand that favors can come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and that there could be more here than you or I know that is going on.

Now, that being said. I am fairly certain that the league offices are closed on the weekends and there still stands a chance that there is a conditional pick involved. If so, then this deal is fine by me and there was no other favors involved.

 

[IcyPatriot]

your aware he had a shoulder issue correct.. And to say Seau outplayed him.> you got to be kidding.. Vrabel is a 3 down LB who has a lot more responsibility


WTF is everyone drinking here.. Stop with the ridiculous excuses about the trade.. It was not a good trade.. It was piss poor

Schuab was worth 2 #2's
Culpepper and Feeley were worth #2s

If you tell me these 3 are as good or better than Cassel your on CRACK!

and if you think you're smarter than Belichick your brains are in your crack ... the fool factor in this forum is out of control.

Last time I checked LB'ers run with their legs and not their shoulders ... Vrabel is lucky if he can beat Wilfork in the 40.