We got all that we could...accept it

[wiggins!]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Where have you been? I've been reading a 2010 conditional pick on various threads all afternoon. WTF Zolack brought it up.

working!

I started a thread awhile back called "Pats release on Cassel/Vrabel trade." Both of the release from the pats and the chiefs are in there.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

working!

I started a thread awhile back called "Pats release on Cassel/Vrabel trade." Both of the release from the pats and the chiefs are in there.

Me too but i get to play on the computer and listen to the radio if i want. So on a day like this i'm doing both. I just wish i hadn't canceled my Sirius subscribtion,i could listen to the NFL network too. Well i only have one set of head phones so that wouldn't work out to well.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

I misread you. I thought you were saying "sign" peppers. Like, offer him a free agent deal thus coughing up the picks. I though you were going off the "signing premise."

I think i didn't even consider a "trade" because what's left on the roseter/picks isn't worth giving up for him. IMO.

I didn't mean to jump at ya! I'm sorry! (there, i said it!) hope you accept.

Apology accepted. With people posting in caps, I've been waiting for an opportunity to do something like that, and you just have me a chance.

But I'm still confused. We have something like 12 draft picks, and the most top 100 picks of any team. Carolina is in salary cap hell and lacks a 1st round pick. Why wouldn't a package of draft picks in a trade for Peppers be reasonable? I can't see the Pats going into TC with 12 rookies; they are going to trade some of those picks (to trade up, trade into 2010, or for players) in some fashion. Why not for Peppers? My original hypothesis was that trading #23, or #34 + 89, or possibly $47 + 58, would probably be sufficient for Carolino to make a deal. Why not at least explore those options and at the same time explore whether Peppers truly wants to play for a 3-4 team at OLB and is willing to negotiate a reasonable contract. It's still a long shot, but I hope we at least explore those options.

 

[mcsully]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was
traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round
pick.

I've got a freaking headache.. Horrible trade... Just horrible..

 

[Blizzzard]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Where have you been? I've been reading a 2010 conditional pick on various threads all afternoon. WTF Zolack brought it up i would thin Zolack would know.

Which threads? I would love to verify this

 

[DarrylS]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was
traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round
pick.

I've got a freaking headache.. Horrible trade... Just horrible..

Does the market stay the same or there some fluctuation??.. they cannot be big players in the FA market with small amounts of cap room.. rest assured next year our kick ass team will not be down the bottom in Red Zone Defense and our corners will not be the laughingstock of the league.

 

[mcsully]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Does the market stay the same or there some fluctuation??.. they cannot be big players in the FA market with small amounts of cap room.. rest assured next year our kick ass team will not be down the bottom in Red Zone Defense and our corners will not be the laughingstock of the league.

Of course it does.. But your looking at it as the market fluctuated in the other direction...
Cassel is a top 15 QB and there is far less young Qb's in this league... Those two I mentioned weren't even top 20 when they were traded..

 

[PYPER]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get more, especially considering that Vrabel was part of the deal.

I think BB had a choice.

1) He could've held out for maximum value in exchange for cassel but doing so would force him to miss out on acquiring impact free agents. As long as Cassel's cap was on the books, we were limited in what we could do.

2) He could make a deal with lesser value that would allow him to become very active in the free agent market while at the same time helping Pioli, his best friend, get off to a solid start in his new job.

I think the key here is understanding that the team was going to move on without Vrabel no matter what. Vrabel didn't have a great year and BB probably realized he needed to upgrade the position. Instead of releasing him, they allowed Vrabel to save face and play out his contract under Pioli.

The more I think about it, it was a very classy way of handling things.

There's also rumors that there may also be a conditional pick included in the trade that could be as high as a 2010 2nd rounder depending on how Cassel and the Chiefs do this year. If that's true, then I think we did extremely well.

It'll be exciting to see who we target in free agency now. I think we're on the verge of a big move. Maybe a Bolden or Peppers. I also wouldn't be surprised to see us make a play for a guy like Ray Lewis or Derrick Brooks. Even though Vrabel was an OLB, we have more depth there and it seems like that's a position that is easier to fill than ILB. Bruschi's best days are behind him. He can still contribute in a rotation but I can see BB trying to add another veteran to the mix.

I can also see guys like Lavernious Coles or Joey Gallowing coming on board at some point.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

I hope to god that's true, it would make much more sense. #34 plus a conditional 2010 pick was always one of the options which I saw being most likely for Cassel. Conditional picks are useful, because the team giving them up only gives in some proportion to value received. If Cassel puts up similar numbers for the Chiefs that he did for the Pats and takes them to playoff contenders, then he will be worth additional picks; if he flops, they don't give up anything.

I would love to go into 2010 with an extra 1st day pick in the bank, plus some comp picks for Gaffney, Paxton, possibly Wright, etc.

Yes this trade as constituted makes perfect sense now that a few hours have passed. Cassel has only played part of one season, hes not proven himself over time. (although he got better as the season went along) So if hes as good as WE think he is he should continue in KC and that would bring what WE think his value is more in line. Pioli is just protecting himself.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Which threads? I would love to verify this

I've been to so many i can't tell you. Put it this way someone was complaining about the "conditional pick" sounding like something out of baseball and not liking it. Then on EEI Scott Zolack talked about it. He should know he works as an analyst during the season. He also said he'd be on tv tonight to talk about it but i don't remember the station.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get more, especially considering that Vrabel was part of the deal.

I think BB had a choice.

1) He could've held out for maximum value in exchange for cassel but doing so would force him to miss out on acquiring impact free agents. As long as Cassel's cap was on the books, we were limited in what we could do.

2) He could make a deal with lesser value that would allow him to become very active in the free agent market while at the same time helping Pioli, his best friend, get off to a solid start in his new job.

I think the key here is understanding that the team was going to move on without Vrabel no matter what. Vrabel didn't have a great year and BB probably realized he needed to upgrade the position. Instead of releasing him, they allowed Vrabel to save face and play out his contract under Pioli.

The more I think about it, it was a very classy way of handling things.

There's also rumors that there may also be a conditional pick included in the trade that could be as high as a 2010 2nd rounder depending on how Cassel and the Chiefs do this year. If that's true, then I think we did extremely well.

It'll be exciting to see who we target in free agency now. I think we're on the verge of a big move. Maybe a Bolden or Peppers. I also wouldn't be surprised to see us make a play for a guy like Ray Lewis or Derrick Brooks. Even though Vrabel was an OLB, we have more depth there and it seems like that's a position that is easier to fill than ILB. Bruschi's best days are behind him. He can still contribute in a rotation but I can see BB trying to add another veteran to the mix.

A great post ... my sentiments also

 

[TealSox]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

This is only the beginning.

If Cassel has two seasons like his last season, it will be a black cloud on the front office. It doesn't matter that the Pats had Brady, but more about how Pioli goes to KC and gets two starters from the Pats for a second around.

And stop with the whole... "34 is basically a low first rounder". Its a second round pick no matter how you paint it. The player comes cheaper and could very well had been a first rounder, but he wasn't.

 

[SVN]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

I've been to so many i can't tell you. Put it this way someone was complaining about the "conditional pick" sounding like something out of baseball and not liking it. Then on EEI Scott Zolack talked about it. He should know he works as an analyst during the season. He also said he'd be on tv tonight to talk about it but i don't remember the station.

well if there was a conditional pick wouldnt the chiefs have said so ? they have only said the 2nd rounder so far.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Well, now that the shock is wearing off (I just saw this a few minutes ago), there are really only three possible explanations for this deal. I think the answer is some combination of 2) and 3).

1) Belichick took his eye off the ball as Pioli was leaving/left and made a major mistake here. I just don't think this is a real possibility.

2) Cassel's true perceived value was not what the mediots were saying it was (remember that a number of them were saying that he was a "better bet" than any of the QB's in the draft, who will go a lot sooner than #34) because other teams decided that the risk was too great that he was a system QB whose value would diminish on another team. I think this is part of the answer.

3) In addition, the Patriots were boxed into a corner once it became known that Brady was coming back healthy (it's now clear to me that the Pats let Brady say clearly that he was on track to signal to potential partners that they were ready to deal sooner rather than later). Their bargaining position was vastly diminished once it was clear that there was little liklihood that they could put together a roster that could compete for the SB with $20+ whatever million of cap space tied up in one position. The fact that they added Vrabel to sweeten the deal suggests that what they were hearing from other teams wasn't encouraging.

 

[Nestapats]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

The thing i just cannot believe is why other franchises like the lions wouldn't give up their 20th pick for Vrabes and MC. That's a better trade for the Pats and they would have gotten their QB with a veteran presence on defense. Same goes for Minnesota and the Bucs. Why to KC, it's almost like a gift from BB to Pioli.

Please someone explain me why other teams wouldn't give up anything higher than the 34th for two excellent players!!!

 

[brdmaverick]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

I wish I could say that this trade made sense to me. The best thing about it is that it frees up a large amount of cap money. In fact, you could look at the trade that way--that it gives us pick #34 and $20 million to spend. But, if doesn't at least bring us Peppers and a good WR in free agency, I'm going to be very disappointed.

I share your sentiments. What good is the money if there is no good talent to spend it on?

 

[SVN]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Well, now that the shock is wearing off (I just saw this a few minutes ago), there are really only three possible explanations for this deal. I think the answer is some combination of 2) and 3).

1) Belichick took his eye off the ball as Pioli was leaving/left and made a major mistake here. I just don't think this is a real possibility.

2) Cassel's true perceived value was not what the mediots were saying it was (remember that a number of them were saying that he was a "better bet" than any of the QB's in the draft, who will go a lot sooner than #34) because other teams decided that the risk was too great that he was a system QB whose value would diminish on another team. I think this is part of the answer.

3) In addition, the Patriots were boxed into a corner once it became known that Brady was coming back healthy (it's now clear to me that the Pats let Brady say clearly that he was on track to signal to potential partners that they were ready to deal sooner rather than later). Their bargaining position was vastly diminished once it was clear that there was little liklihood that they could put together a roster that could compete for the SB with $20+ whatever million of cap space tied up in one position. The fact that they added Vrabel to sweeten the deal suggests that what they were hearing from other teams wasn't encouraging.

i bet borges and florio will stir this up by saying that brady's mouth cost the pats more value for cassel

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was
traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round
pick.

I've got a freaking headache.. Horrible trade... Just horrible..

2 guys with actual resume's that stretch beyond 15 games. Lets remember who we traded. Cassel has great potential, but is not exactly rock solid proven. A lot of us wanted to think so, but that doesn't make it so. A very high second is not bad for him.

Vrabel..... forget that part of it. It's clear he was getting cut. I was leaning that way anyway, this confirms that it was gonna happen.

I'm not convinced we know everything yet.

This is only the beginning.

If Cassel has two seasons like his last season, it will be a black cloud on the front office. It doesn't matter that the Pats had Brady, but more about how Pioli goes to KC and gets two starters from the Pats for a second around.

And stop with the whole... "34 is basically a low first rounder". Its a second round pick no matter how you paint it. The player comes cheaper and could very well had been a first rounder, but he wasn't.

That line alone disqualifies your entire point.

 

[b72s]

KC & Draft Day

Could be draft day call back is on the stove depending who is there??

What if we wind up trading 23 & 34 for the #3 overall if our guy is there

Maybe LB from WF

 

[Wevegotmossyouaintgotoss]

Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

Wait, there is an conditional pick to all this?

Im confused, maybe there discussing Samuel draft?
Ben