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We got all that we could...accept it

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Blizzzard, Feb 28, 2009.

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  1. Blizzzard

    Blizzzard Rookie

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    #54 Jersey

    The reality of this was that the Bucs and the Lions made offers and they obviously weren't acceptable. That left only 1 real team to trade with... the Chiefs.

    If we waited any longer, we would have gotten even less and lost out on some good FA's.

    This 2nd was as good as a mid-late 1st in any other draft year.

    How else do you see this shaking out knowing that the Chiefs were the only team offering something as high as the #34?

    and before you say "but Vrabel was included" realize that this was probably the only way we even got this much.
  2. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    I wish I could say that this trade made sense to me. The best thing about it is that it frees up a large amount of cap money. In fact, you could look at the trade that way--that it gives us pick #34 and $20 million to spend. But, if doesn't at least bring us Peppers and a good WR in free agency, I'm going to be very disappointed.
  3. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    Accept it......... I'm good with it. For people to grasp this you have to keep to things in mind.

    1) It's pretty obvious that BB had NO INTENTION of keeping Vrabes at 4.4M and he was likely gonna be a cap casualty anyway. BB gave a respected player a good out by trading him to a team that could use him (and does not hurt us).

    and....

    2) If KC had told us in August that they'd give us number #34 for what amounts to a back-up QB (UFA no less - before the tag) named Cassel and a Blow Job............ you'd have hit the floor quicker then snot.

    Be thankful we can forgo the BJ ;)

    Plus, we got a few poker chips and 18M to spend.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  4. Wevegotmossyouaintgotoss

    Wevegotmossyouaintgotoss Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    WHAT IS THIS OBSESSION WITH PEPPERS!!. I think we need to make a play for Bodden...

    Ben
  5. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    I accept it...we blinked. I never thought I would see this team panic like that. Now maybe there was something else in the works that will make sense of this move, but until then it looks like they were taken.
  6. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    great point!
  7. wiggins!

    wiggins! Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    I wanted Peppers too but the Peppers chase is over. Do you really think BB and the Pats are going to cough up 2 first round picks (1 in each of the next 2years) for Peppers - for anybody? Remember, Peppers is franchised. Just like Cassel was. The Peppers chase is over - IMO. I'd be shocked if they're willing to give up 2 firsts.
  8. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    I'll qualify that with this -- We got what we could in the QUICKEST time frame possible. There were other teams interested in MC or a three way trade involving MC, such as Tampa Bay, Detroit, Denver, but the Pats decided not to wait any longer to see how those scenarios would develop.

    NBCSports.com >> NBC Sports Blogs

    Vrabel btw was a throw in that would have been a cap casualty otherwise. I don't see him affecting what we got in return from KC at all. If Vrabel had any value we would have gotten another 2nd day pick out of the deal.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  9. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    I'm listening to eei and Scott Zolack. He pointed out that the conditional pick is most like based on how much Cassel plays and how far the team goes. He said he could see that pick becoming another second rounder. He also said this trade doesn't make sese the way it is now that theres more coming. FWiW
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  10. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    Wait, there is an conditional pick to all this?
  11. Blizzzard

    Blizzzard Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.


    I heard that too. They seem to think that all the details are not out and official. The deal may include more picks.

    Does this sound like a possibility or just EEI looking for something to keep people tuned in?:confused2:
  12. mmasterkillah

    mmasterkillah Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    We once again played the system as well as we could. Brady's prognosis has been publicly stated as being on schedule since the beginning of February (hell, he was photographed golfing on SB Sunday).

    We were able to trade Matt to a destination of our choice, a non-rival, all while picking up an early second rounder in an interesting draft class. While not particularly strong at the top, this class seems to offer significant depth, evident by the fluctuating views among scouts on determining overall player values from about #'s 10-60. I envision this class producing some really good players outside of the top 20 or so picks, maybe better than the guys who will be getting the biggest paychecks.

    We had to decide whether it was important to have the freedom under the cap and make this deal, or whether we could afford to sit back and wait for the possibility that a better deal would present itself. We obviously felt that the cap flexibility offered the team the best chance to improve, as a whole, for this offseason.

    Whether the team ultimately got the highest amount possible isn't relevant, because it would have likely crippled the team in other facets of the off-season.
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    And who gave up 2 firsts for Cassel, because he was franchised too. What it would cost to sign a player away and what it would cost to trade for him are 2 different things. Carolina is in a bind - they have no 1st round pick, they are in salary cap hell, and their biggest cap drain is a 29 year old who doesn't want to play for them. They will be willing to listen to offers, and would likely jump at one 1st round pick, or 2 2's. The Peppers "chase" is far from over.

    I'm certainly not "obsessed" with Peppers. But we need 3-4 OLBs who can rush the passer, Peppers is a tremendous rusher with great athletic ability who wants to play 3-4 OLB, and there is a very limited opportunity to get players of his calibre. DeMarcus Ware and Terrell Suggs are NOT going to become available to us. Getting Peppers would plug a hole with a player of known ability, even though he would be changing positions. BB loves to find ways to use players to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

    If we don't get Peppers it won't break my heart. But that doesn't mean we should not pursue him if the cost is reasonable and we can make it work.
  14. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    I hope to god that's true, it would make much more sense. #34 plus a conditional 2010 pick was always one of the options which I saw being most likely for Cassel. Conditional picks are useful, because the team giving them up only gives in some proportion to value received. If Cassel puts up similar numbers for the Chiefs that he did for the Pats and takes them to playoff contenders, then he will be worth additional picks; if he flops, they don't give up anything.

    I would love to go into 2010 with an extra 1st day pick in the bank, plus some comp picks for Gaffney, Paxton, possibly Wright, etc.
  15. wiggins!

    wiggins! Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    No. You don't get it. It's not an option of two 2's...or just a one.....IT"S MANDATORY. FRANCHISE TAG RULES STATE IN ORDER TO SIGN SOMEONE'S NON-EXCLUSIVE FRANCHISE PLAYER....THE TEAM THAT SIGNS HIM GIVES UP 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS. NO CHOICE. NO OPTIONS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

    Like I said, I wanted Peppers too. It's over. You don't give up 2 first round picks for anyone in the NFL.

    Let me ask you, for Peppers (if you could work out a deal for him), would you give up 2 first rounders?
  16. wiggins!

    wiggins! Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    UUUGHH....Now people are reaching. From the patriots. First paragraph of the release:

    FOXBOROUGH, Mass. – The New England Patriots have traded linebacker Mike Vrabel and quarterback Matt Cassel to the Kansas City Chiefs in exchange for the Chiefs second-round pick (34th overall) in the 2009 NFL Draft.

    Where does it say there's a conditional pick?
  17. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    No because they have they own part of the Red Sox and have to pump them up,and they broadcast the Celtics. So this isn't something they really need to keep ratings up. Besides trading someone like Vrable is a story. This morning before the trade they were talking about Vrable,then the trade came along and they interupted their Red Sox club house talk to discuss the trade.
  18. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    NO, YOU DON'T GET IT. I'LL PUT IT IN CAPS AND IN BOLD TOO, JUST TO BE MORE EMPHATIC THAN YOU.

    ACCORDING TO LEAGUE RULES, IF WE SIGN PEPPERS (NO TRADE INVOLVED) THEN CAROLINA GETS 2 #1 PICKS. BUT WE CAN NEGOTIATE A TRADE WITH CAROLINA FOR HIM FOR WHATEVER THEY ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT. THAT'S WHAT WE DID WITH CASSEL. THAT'S WHAT GB DID LAST YEAR. ETC. CAPISCE?


    If you like, I can add italics or color to make it more emphatic. LIKE THIS
  19. wiggins!

    wiggins! Rookie

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    I misread you. I thought you were saying "sign" peppers. Like, offer him a free agent deal thus coughing up the picks. I though you were going off the "signing premise."

    I think i didn't even consider a "trade" because what's left on the roseter/picks isn't worth giving up for him. IMO.

    I didn't mean to jump at ya! I'm sorry! (there, i said it!) hope you accept.
  20. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: We got all that we could..accept it.

    Where have you been? I've been reading a 2010 conditional pick on various threads all afternoon. WTF Zolack brought it up i would thin Zolack would know.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
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