Welcome to PatsFans.com

We don't need a great QB to win the Super Bowl

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by festy1986, Sep 10, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. festy1986

    festy1986 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +30 / 4 / -8

    #12 Jersey

    that's what i keep hearing, i keep hearing that all cassel has to do is manage the game, keep from making the mistakes and we if he does that, the pats have as good of shot as anyone.

    sure that might be true, looking at when the Steelers won a few years back, dilfer, johnson, or whoever you want to name to convince your self this is true.

    yea, i can buy this theory, i like it, i hope it's true.

    but some of us actually don't believe it, like my self because it's pretty simple, Brady was the one guy who was going to keep the over rated defense from being a problem, the secondary is complete junk, it really is, and if you think the front 7 will keep it from being exposed, then your flying pretty high, manning is going to pick apart the defense when the pats play him, and were not going to have brady to pick apart theres..

    i know that as long as Brady was on the team, it kept the pats from being a bad team, 2002 would of been disaster without him, not that it was any better with him, brady kept the 2005 team from being a complete wash, and credit where it is due, the 2006 team was better on the defensive side then on the offensive but it was brady who made the team scary.

    this team is going to give up points is what im trying to say, and Cassel is going to have to do more then manage a game, im pulling for him, i hope this doesn’t become a season where they don’t trust him to throw the ball, by week 8 they better be letting him throw the ball and not trying to win games by hard nose defense and clock management, it wont work.

    long story short, cassel cant win the patriots games by clock management and not turning the ball over because the defense isn’t going to keep the pats in most these games to allow him to do it, the pats are going to have to score 21 plus to win games, and cassel has everything he needs to be successful surrounding him, and known that he is the guy, if he cant utilize it then he wont make it in the league. so lets hope that he is capable to do more then just manage a game, cause he's going to have to.
     
  2. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +75 / 2 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl

    first off.....

    from what ive seen so far, Manning is in no position to pick apart any defense right now...

    secondly, the secondary is not trash...that was proven week 1...

    thirdly, yea, the front 7 is going to be good...

    fourthly...this is the best defense we have had in a while

    and lastly....what QB won the SB last season?
     
  3. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +75 / 2 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl

    p.s. this defens ethis season will be that good, b/c it wont allow many td's....

    it will be an amazing red zone defense, and the opponent can get as many FG's as they fee like, w/o td's, u dont win the game...

    (unless ur the colts playing the ravens)
     
  4. NovaScotiaPatsFan

    NovaScotiaPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl

    Checkmate.
     
  5. Double G

    Double G In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl

    "fourthly...this is the best defense we have had in a while"

    Sorry, you lost me there.

    Vrabel and TB are older, Seymour needs to revert back to his old form and the secondary is a huge question mark; Rodney is on the back nine and they are going with a rookie CB and a guy they picked up off the scrap heap AND, Hobbs who bit on that inside route in the SB.

    I agree 100% with the OP, it's not like the defense is like the 86 Bears or the monster D the Ravens had several years ago, teams are going to score on this defense and I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling that an eight year clip board holder is going to be able to match teams score for score which Brady could do standing on his head.

    Remains to be seen how this will play out, it will either be something magical out of a Hollywood movie or a complete and utter train wreck.

    If it is a train wreck, I can only imagine how pretty this team will be sitting in 2009 with a pissed off Brady coming back, a great draft seeding and a non first place schedule all rolled into one.
     
  6. JoePats

    JoePats In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl

    Not buying it. Say what you want about Eli but he played well in the playoffs. It's why the Giants actually won three games in a row to reach the Super Bowl instead of their inconsistent play from the regular season.

    And when Trent Dilfer won the Super Bowl they had one of the greatest defenses of all-time.
     
  7. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl


    Thank you. You just made our point. Eli sucked during the first half of the season and was solid during the second half. Wow a QB that improved with game experience. Maybe it is conceivable that a QB that was inconsistent in the pre-season will be better in the regular season and even better in the post-season.
     
  8. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I remember this one time that Hank Poteat, Ty Poole, and a second-year Asante Samuel were in this "trash" backfield that the Colts were going to "expose" in the playoffs and something happened but I don't remember because I didn't watch the games since we were doomed to lose.
     
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    23,267
    Likes Received:
    252
    Ratings:
    +960 / 20 / -20

    Basically, you are saying our defense blows. I disagree. Time will tell.
     
  10. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Oh and the defense is better this year than last. If Deltha O'Neal plays the way he did on Sunday, it's better. Adalius is back outside, Jerod Mayo is a machine (this guy is going to be a consistent all-pro), and the defensive line is...well the NEP defensive line.

    Matt Cassel has 8 games where he can go 4-4, and get his **** together and improve. Then we're a 5-4 team heading into the last 7 games. Against teams like Miami and Arizona and Seattle.
     
  11. chrisfx811

    chrisfx811 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Aside from Brady & the Pats, no team has won the SB since 2000 with a qb who played 'great'.
    Manning is the only one who could be argued is even a great qb, aside from TfB, an dhe played like doo-doo in their SB win comparatively speaking.

    Dilfer's Ravens won it with a stellar defense.
    Big Ben's Steeler's won it with solid team play and some good calls.
    Manning's Colts won it with a stretch run of great defense, and a balanced offense.
    Jr. Horse face's Giants won it with their front line, period. And a few minor miracle plays when it counted.
     
  12. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl


    Hobbs, Oneal and LSanders are not rookie CBs, thanks.

    Hobbs didn't have a choice but to bite on the inside route in 1 on 1 coverage.
     
  13. festy1986

    festy1986 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +30 / 4 / -8

    #12 Jersey

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl


    Yea, Brady played just as bad if not worse then "that" qb who won the sb that day, I can only dream that our defense could get the pressure on the qb that the giants had that day, don't buy it.

    Pats D gave up a TD to a back up qb to the worst team in the afc, by time we play manning, im willing to bet he will be in plenty shape to drop 40.

    Saying out secondary is good is too much koolaid, the Cheifs dropped a sure TD to begin with.

    I remember those days too, that was back when Seymor was constantly in the back field, some guy named Willy was getting in Mannings face on a regular basis, and some guy named Bruschi was INT balls right out of receivers hands and coming up with huge play after play.

    Im not doubting the pats ability to win, Im just being way more objective about it, I thought the secondary was weak before the injury, after, it will be a problem because we may have trouble keeping up points for points with the other teams.

    and for andy johnson, I dont think our d is trash, I just think that as good as our front 7 is, as good as anyones for that matter, our secondary as of right now, is as bad. I know what were getting from Hobbs and it isnt much.


    I would love to be wrong, but until I see this team against a team that can expose the secondary, I dont know if they can win against other teams who will put up a bunch of points.
    Last years D was better then this years so I have no idea where this best D in a long time stuff is coming from.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2008
  14. festy1986

    festy1986 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +30 / 4 / -8

    #12 Jersey

    I just want to make a small comparison that might help drive my point home.

    If the Pats lost Brady and put Cassel in, and they had the 2000 Ravens defense, there is no doubt the win the SB, but this defense isnt even close to that, and I wouldnt even say there the best in this years class, lets see if there even top 5 with the secondary issues.
     
  15. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0


    secondary issues? They aren't perfect but they don't exactly have issues, well maybe only in your mind. By midseason hobbs/oneal will be shutting down receivers all over town.
     
  16. chrisfx811

    chrisfx811 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    The Ravens definitely had the best defense of the bunch, that won a SB this decade.
    The Bucs were no slouch, either.
    The Giants had a pretty suspect secondary by all accounts.
    The Colts were nothing special, just fast and tackled well.
    The Steelers were a typical Steelers defense.

    Point being, none of those other teams, except the Colts, had as potent an offense as the Pats have this year. The o-line play will make or break the Pats chances this year.
    If the o-line is shored up, and plays great, Cassel just needs to manage the game well enough for the rest of the team to do their jobs.

    If the Pats get back to playing early 2000s Pats' football with tough D, high TO margin, and great special teams, then Cassel doesn't have to be Tom Brady.
    24-28 tds, <12 ints, & 58-60 % completions should be good enough.

    The core of the team on both sides of the ball will decide their fate this year.
    If the d-line stays healthy, and produces at a level that their capable of, everyone behind them will have less pressure on them.

    If the o-line somehow comes together, then the Pats have 3-4 running backs that could terrorize opponents. Maroney bobbing & weaving, Morris & Jordan pounding it North & South, and Faulk converting 3rd downs & screen plays into nice gains.

    I will say, I wish O'Connel based on size & mobility alone, were already in his 2nd year.
     
  17. JoePats

    JoePats In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl

    Yea, a qb that was the first pick in the draft, had significantly more starting experience. All we have on Cassel is that he was Brady's backup. Eli Manning did just win a Super Bowl and won 3 road playoff games to get there. I'm sorry if you can't see the difference.
     
  18. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    5,609
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    We don't need a great QB to win the SB, we just need a good one who'll improve throughout the season with a great team behind him.

    Too early to judge but if Cassel builds on what he showed us Sunday he'll be good enough, which is all we can expect and maybe all we'll need.

    We've got a pretty good:rolleyes: team, and as BB used to say back in 01, the strength of the wolf is in the pack. This year more than ever that needs to be true again.
     
  19. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl

    What does that matter? Brady was drafted in the 6th, Ryan Leaf was drafted in the first.

    My point is players get better with experience. Cassel hasn't had much in the last 8 years. He could be a significantly better QB in December than he was this past Sunday when he racked up a passer rating of 116.
     
  20. JoePats

    JoePats In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Re: we don't need a great qb to win the superbowl

    It doesn't matter where the player was drafted, but if you think that a 7th round pick has the chance of success of a first round pick, you're going to be disappointed far more often than not. That's just the way it is. I'm sorry, if Matt Cassel is Eli Manning, I'll eat a lot of crow. And we'll have a great shot to win the Super Bowl. I just don't see it. The fact that Eli Manning improved over the course of the season last year doesn't mean that Matt Cassel will. Doesn't mean that at all. Because we don't know anything about the ability of Matt Cassel. We have never seen him play.

    He played very well on Sunday. I'd certainly take that every week, no question. But it was the Chiefs. At home. We will probably not play 3 easier games the entire season. That he played well against them is almost 100% irrelevant in terms of how he will play against most any other team on the schedule.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>