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We are not a Christian nation

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Confucian, .... all have good points, all have a central core emanating from the Original Way that started from the Original Cause. THAT is the ideal -- the ONLY ideal -- that gives us our values to embrace each other, to accept one another, to love one another. It can never be done just on imperfect (selfish) human terms alone; we need to include the eternal Original Way as the starting point.


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  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    read somewhere this AM that some right wingy dingy blog said something to the effect that Obama is afraid to say Jesus... this may have been where it came from.
  4. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You've waxed positively ecumenical of late, Fog. I must say it's an improvement.

    To Mr. Obama's point: He chose to make it at that most adamantly secularist majority Muslim nation, Turkey, as an example to the extremists on both sides, that the nation has purely secular goals under the American and Turkish model, regardless of which religion one practices, or which religion is practiced most, in a given place.

    That's respecting all the faiths, and therefore, to follow your philosophical byway, respecting the eternal Original Way, if one is of a metaphysical bent; it prevents any of the branchings of said Way (including humanism which espouses the same values,) from being crushed or minimized by any numerically superior sect.

    I liked seeing this when I read it yesterday, Patters. Thanks for posting.
  5. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    not that I give a crap about religion because I don't, but Obama should stop being such a suck-up

    its the kind of thing that emboldens others to blow up US embassies, navy ships and forge and execute plans to fly passenger jets into american skyscrapers
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Last I saw, just under 80% of Americans considered themselves to be "Christian" - down from the mid 80s. With a number like that he is wrong. Of course we are a Christian nation (this coming from an Agnostic); just because not everyone is Christian doesn't change that. But, sure, go suck up to the muslims, Obama - you are one, after all.
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I agree.

    Obama, just STFU about religion already! No one gives a rat's azz!:mad:
  8. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Hey, good to see you finally paying attention!! There's hope for you, yet!! :D


    Obama is himself a confluence of black and white, Muslim and Christian, so he really is in an excellent position to see more broadly than any of his predecessors. And not a moment too soon, at that!!

    And, you're right again (wow, how you've matured of late!! :D ) about Turkey. They have chosen a distinctly "secular" course because they have seen the evil results of militant fundamentalism, and they want no part of it anymore. So Obama is talking to an attentive choir when he's in Turkey.

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  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    .... except for about 80% of Americans and a whole bunch of folks in the Middle East and all over the world.

    You know, I'm sorry you had some bad experience with religion in your life, but you've got to let it go. Don't let a few rotten apples spoil your whole bushel of life. Toss the nasties out and keep on keepin' on with God. He *does* love you.


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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  10. godef

    godef Rookie

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    You got that completely arse-backwards tanked. It is when we disrespect the sensibilities of another culture that "others" are emboldened. Not saying that the "sensibility" is good or bad, just acknowleging that it's there, so try not to spit into the wind like Bush did.
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The "Black Community" loves Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King constantly spoke of Jesus and his Father God, the Reverend's Sharpton/Jackoff preach the word of the Lord every Sunday to their congregation, they close their eyes and raise their hands to the heavens in their praise of Jesus Christ Almighty, The Black Community's LOVE for Jesus can clearly be seen in their beautiful soul stirring Gospel singing, go to The Gospel Channel and watch the tears stream down their faces when they sing of their Lord SaviorThe Blessed Jesus Christ who died on the Cross for them, "oh Mary, blessed is the fruit of your womb"

    When the Lord Jesus Christ and his Father God are trashed and scorned it must make the Black Community weep.

    Mahalia Jackson sang of Jesus and told us that "He Had The Whole World In His Hands"

    Blessed Is The Womb For Thou Cometh From It.
  12. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    you give others way too much credit.........islamic extremists simply don't see it that way

    go find yourself a copy of the book 'what went wrong' by bernard lewis......for 10 bucks or so, the value is off the charts

    you are clearly not in understanding of what the islamic issues really are

    Amazon.com: What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East: Bernard Lewis: Books

    I fully understand the notion of reasoning with an adversary, but what do you do when they can't be reasoned with??? and I understand the liberal notion that everyone should be reasoned with, but attempts to do so with islamic extremists has only led to pain, suffering, and death on repeated cases

    the the unbending zionist mentality is based on the fact that islamic extremism is even more unbending
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  13. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    this is wrong as long as there is a constitutional amendment specifying a separation of church and state.........when 'God' is mentioned in the pledge of allegiance, or in government doctrine, it is used in a generic term......it is the 'God' that any particular individual may subscribe to.......for anyone to assume that it is a reference to the christian god does not fly in the face of our consitution

    this country was founded on christian values and they are largely good ones........ as are the values of your every day muslim.......

    people have every right to care about their version of god, and in this regard, obama is technically correct.......but at the end of the day, this is a christian country no matter how much someone says otherwise and to say so can only stir trouble
  14. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Don't know who you are arguing with or what you are arguing about. I agree in principle with everything you said.

    :confused:


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  15. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    I was referencing another quote when I started typing........sorry for confusing things, I just wanted to state my opinion which I believe is unbiased towards this issue
  16. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Well, I also think your opinion here was unbiased and rather level-headed. :) No harm, no foul.

    "America is great because America is good. If America ever ceases to be good, she will also cease to be great." -- attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville, 19th century French historian

    If America Ever Ceases to be Good, She Will Cease to be Great

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  17. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Agree with his statement 100%. Separation of church and state dictates that. He also makes a point here though to emphasize that we are governed, "bound" in fact, by ideals and values. It was a clever turn of phrase as you could take that to mean whatever you wish, and in turn make an argument about the role of Christian or other religious value system in our government and laws.

    So it really was a nice statement. It says that we should not be governed by religion, but that our laws should reflect the values of a moral society. That's what I take away from it, anyway.
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    No offense to you or any other religious people, but my past experiences don't effect whether or not I choose to believe in the mythology that some of my family does.

    And just because someone is a believer does not mean that person wants to hear the POTUS blab about it because his faith has nothing to do with what he needs to do on the job. I don't go to job sites and blab about my personal views even if I was a frothing-at-the-mouth evangelist because no one wants to hear it.
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hate to put a damper on your little right wing love fest, but Toqueville never said this.. or course Jeremy Sarber a Primitive Baptist offering a conservative American perspective of life is where I always search for my facts..

    The Tocqueville Fraud

  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Well, I appreciate your sensitivity on the issue, Wistah. My take on Obama's making the issue public is that since religion and religious differences most certainly ARE a very big issue in the Middle East, as well as all over the world, I do believe Obama did a smart and good thing in broaching this very sensitive topic.

    Like it or not, people have their religious beliefs. And many people use those beliefs to justify some pretty nasty stuff, as we all know. Not only today, but in the past as well. (See the 100 years war after Luther started the Reformation, ending with the Treaty of Westphalia, 1648.)

    Religion is not just a "personal" issue, though many would have it that way; religion mobilizes billions of people, for good and sometimes for bad. Religion needs to be opened up and explored, publicly, NOT stashed away in the closet.

    "Out, OUT, damned spot...." the bard once said. Could have been talking about the sins big and small of the faithful. Confession is good for the soul.

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