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We are losing our sovereignty

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by The Gr8est, May 16, 2006.

  1. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    I wasn't sure I wanted to start a whole new thread on this but decided too since this topic could take off in a number of different directions. There is no issue that fires me up more than this illegal immigration issue. As some of the links that I will post will show, people who you would expect to be allies of Bush, such as Rush Limbaugh, are coming out strong against him.

    As I've mentioned before, I voted for Bush twice. The second time my biggest concern was statements he had made about amnesty for the illegals (although he refused to call them illegals). It remained my biggest concern and someone advised Bush to keep his mouth shut about it before the election.

    This first post is a transcript of a segment from Rush Limbaugh's show on 15MAY06.

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_051506/content/immigration_stack_1.guest.html

    No matter what any of you think about Rush, there is no doubt he is an astute follower of politics and sees what is going on; fully understanding what is really going on quicker than most. But here he is pointing out how most of America is opposed to Bush's immigration policy yet Bush charges ahead with amnesty plan and refuses to acknowledge the forces allied against him. There are some strange bedfellows allying here. Rush correctly is asking "What does Bush know that keeps him from acting the way most of us want him to?" Rush wasn't saying this to offer Bush any cover, like the rest of us he seems truly baffled that Bush seems to be completely undeterred from commiting political suicide.

    This next post is from Neil Boortz' site. Pay attention to the letter to the editor about midway down. I think putting the illegal immigration issue at the local level is a great way of explaining what is going on.

    http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

    Small correction, this link is to the main page, to see the 15MAY06 entry you will have to go to the archives link on the left. Today's page is good too though! 16MAY06

    Lastly to keep it relatively short here is David Frum's blog from the national review. Pay attention to what he wrote on 15MAY06.

    http://frum.nationalreview.com/

    Take a look at these and then go back to your favorite TV show, video game, or check out the latest Patriots news in the other forum. It is what so many of us frogs do while the government turns up the heat of the water we are swimming in....and the government is grateful that we are so disengaged.

    Evil is allowed to proliferate when good men do nothing.
    Last edited: May 16, 2006
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    The issue with GWB is he does not surround himself with a group of people who represent opposing views, instead he surrounds himself with very like minds. Take the issue with Karl Rove, who just yesterday said the only polls they pay attention to is one's commisioned by the RNC. The immigration issue is clearly pandering, he sung national anthem in Spanish during the '00 election and now opposes it. He is loosing his conservative base, so he has to respond, not sure if the response is effective or not, as I do not understand the illegal immigration as well as I understand other things. I really think after '04 he felt he had enough political capital to carry him through the next 4 years, however he has made so many faux pas he has spent it all. IMO he has distanced himself from all reality and the populus so much so he cannot discern fact from fiction. He insulates himself when he speaks in public it is to carefully selected groups of people. Take the Cindy Sheehan issue( I do not like Cindy Sheehan), if he just spoke to her initially he would have taken the wind out of her sails, instead he drove by in what seemed to be an arrogant way. He will not even return to his ranch when she is there, bottom line I think this man is leading us down a very scary path and I expect him to continue to make very poor decisions as long as his advisors continue to tell him what he wants to hear and not needs to hear.
  3. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    I AM and a conervative, and his response was NOT effective for me. He stubbornly clings to his traitorous course of action for reasons that are unfathomable to me. I do NOT think he lied to get us into Iraq, but refusing to protect our borders is an impeachable offense in my opinion.

    And just as a point of fact, Bush DID meet with Cindy Sheehan before she became the total wacko nutcase in public.
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    Are you saying that the illegal immigrants are foreign agents?

    As I see it, the legitimate issues with the illegal immigrants are:
    (1) the fact that they're here, shows our borders are dangerously porous, and that terrorists might be able to get through.
    (2) Illegals are flooding in at a rate faster than they can be absorbed, and are affecting salaries, overloading government services, and costing taxpayers.
    (3) Our laws are ineffective in dealing with the illegal immigrants; we need a set of coherent, enforceable laws.

    I do not think that 11 million illegal immigrants represents a threat to the sovereignty of a nation that has close to 250 million people.
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    Nobody gives a sh!t what I say on here because I am a flaming Neo Con, I have backed Bush on everything he has done and he has betrayed me with the ILLEGAL ALIENS, his speech on ILLEGAL ALIENS last night was pure double talk BULLSH!T.

    THE ONLY SOLUTION TO THE CRIMINAL ILLEGAL ALIEN NOW SEEMS TO BE TO TURN THE MINUTEMEN LOOSE ON THEM.

    We have no more HERO's left in this country.

    Another solution to the Illegal's could come from a very unsuspected source, it could come from the concern of other minority's who see the Illegal Alien as a threat to their place in the sun. See what I mean? Delicate topic eh?
  6. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060516-125016-4401r.htm

    How about if the amnesty bill being debated allows 193 million to enter this country in the next 20 years?
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    Gr8est, I didn't know that. Obviously, it's a bad bill, and it's probably been written as political stopgap measure, with the intent of refining it over time. The Congress and President should probably put together a short-term solution (1-3 years) since this is a difficult problem to solve. I'm as much of a liberal as anyone in this forum, but there's no way I would support immigration on that scale. Immigration needs to be driven by our needs and, to a lesser degree, by our obligation to help the truly oppressed (I don't mean the poor, but I mean victims of ethnic cleansing, extremist discrimination, and so on).
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    If he's a traitor, he's a traitor. Why do you think he's honorable enough to have been truthful about Iraq but a lying traitor about national security? I'm a conservative, too, and I think he did lie to get us into Iraq. In my book, he has been committing treason since I've been paying attention to the dolt (about 9/13/01). He has intentionally refused to protect us as well as catch or kill Bin Ladin.
  9. OhExaulted1

    OhExaulted1 Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    #15 Jersey
    If he had had half a brain he would have gotten Bin Laden and held his severed head up for all America to see. He gave us Saddam instead, which is an unacceptable consilation prize. He was not a threat to America and reviled in the Arab world.

    Saddam had Iraqi's killed, OBL had Ameriacans killed. Don't tell me we're close to getting him, we supposedly have been for years. It's CRAP.

    It is shameful that the families of the victims of 9-11 still have to hear his voice and see his videos. This man may not be TOTALLY responsible for 9-11, but his ideological prescence inspired them and will inspire more the longer he is able to avoid facing justice.

    The longer he is allowed to spread his hate, the longer we have as Americans to convincing the world otherwise.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2005
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    I know he met with her before, however if he had just met with her once for a few words in a public setting, no press present, he could have neutralized her and could have looked like a compassionate man who is concerned about all those folks who have lost relatives in Iraq. Instead, he fed the fire of dissent, so much so he does not even go home again at the risk of meeting Sheehan and crew.
  11. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    I just thought of a reason why Bush may be ignoring the illegal invasion from Mexico...it solves a looming problem for politicians who want to keep their power. That problem is the coming social security shortfall. Suddenly, we have found a source of young workers to contribute into the coffers and prop up social security.

    That would solve the problem for a long time or at least until the polititians who are unable to control their spending bankrupt us again.

    Of course by then maybe the culture of death will have softened us up for the next solution to the inevitable social security shortfall...euthanizing the old and sick.
    Last edited: May 17, 2006
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    Culture of death? Oh, I thought you were referring to our sending to troops to Iraq for no good reason, becoming an international leader in use of the death penalty, and providing no health care to poor kids.

    At any rate, the immigration issue has nothing to do with looming problems in Social Security IMHO. Politicians of either party don't think much beyond their next election cycle.
  13. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    I'll save any responses to the culture of death issue for another thread to avoid going too far off track.

    I am not saying that the social security crisis IS the reason for Bush's unfathomable stance towards the border, but it is worth considering. The problem of social security (apart from politicians who can't stop spending), is too few workers contibuting to the system. I think you are wrong about how far politicians look ahead to maintaining their power, I think it is an obsession with them.

    Bringing these workers in to prop up the coffers would be a short-sighted and self-serving idea...something politicians are very good at. They have managed to run up deficits that they don't know how they'll pay for, why wouldn't they go for the quick fix?

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