We are all hypocrites

[Nikolai]

First, this is not the easiest schedule in the NFL. Maybe that was true in August, before we knew what really lay ahead. Seattle and Arizona are better than expected, the 49ers are pretty good, as is Houston, Baltimore, Denver, and even the Dolphins are better than expected.

Second, this team has loads of talent, but the execution just isn't there. It reminds me a bit of 2009, but I like this team a bit more than that one.

Time will tell.

I still think we'll murder the Jest next week.

 

[Ifleninwasawizard]

Yes....and aren't you getting TIRED of BB drafting DEVELOPMENTAL players so often for this team....ESPECIALLY for the secondary ?

Not really, when you have two veteran starters that is a risk you can afford to take. It just didn't work out today, it might in the long run.

When it comes to developmental players I'm not all that worried. How many people on these boards were deriding the Jones pick as 'developmental'? If you watched the preseason you would know that Ebner has some serious potential considering that he is basically learning the game from scratch. Wilson also seems like he could be a pretty solid player. Today he happened to get beat by a veteran receiver who tooled on two rookies. If even one of our veteran safties were out there it would have been much less likely to happen.

BB always sacrifices a little bit of today in order ensure success in the future. This means we are going to be contenders for years going forward. And in the NFL, where one fluky bad game can end even the greatest teams season, being a contender is the best you can be.

 

[ausbacker]

Jones had nine tackles, 2 sacks and 3 QB hits today...once again, he was held almost continually in the 2nd half...I think THAT is a segment of the Pats D that HAS improved, the rush from the DE....but I guess you think he's no better than anybody at DE last year...so far I disagree.

Jones has been fantastic Joker. That said, he's replacing the production of Andre Carter and Mark Anderson (who had decent years as a combo). Long term, we look set with Chandler Jones, but that win doesn't equal enough of an improvement in isolation.

 

[Joker]

10 games to go, Aus...I can't get any worse in the secondary. There is a communication issue that needs to be corrected. I'm not going to kill myself because the Pats have three losses by a combined 4 points. I trust they will be performing better as the season winds down...whether that will be enough remains to be seen.

My questions primarily have to do with play calls by McD at certain points in a few of these game, the seemingly constant 2nd half degeneration in the Patriots secondary defense, especially 4th quarters and mounting injuries. About time this kid Vereen put up or shut up, with Bolden dinged up.

Sanchez threw for 80 yards today....the Pats only need to score early this next game to put it away. Their run defense is stout this season. If a turd like sanchez lights up the pats secondary and the front seven get no pressure, this team has problems...no question...I don't see that happening.

 

[Ifleninwasawizard]

I've realized this is the best way to describe this season: 3 kicks.

If Gostkowski hits the FG in Arizona we win. If the ravens kicker goes a literally a few inches to the right we win. If we kick a field goal at the half of this game we win. Those three little plays are the difference between us being .500 and undefeated.

In Arizona the D came up with a huge turnover that could have won us the game. The Ravens game was a travesty and consistently wiped away the good play of the D. In this game our D came up with a few important turnovers that weren't capitalized on. The play before Dennard got victimized they came up with a big stop on 3rd down.

I just don't think our D is light years away from being decent. The past few years we have been in major rebuilding mode and I think we are much closer to the end of that process than the beginning.

 

[ausbacker]

10 games to go, Aus...I can't get any worse in the secondary. There is a communication issue that needs to be corrected. I'm not going to kill myself because the Pats have three losses by a combined 4 points. I trust they will be performing better as the season winds down...whether that will be enough remains to be seen.

My questions primarily have to do with play calls by McD at certain points in a few of these game, the seemingly constant 2nd half degeneration in the Patriots secondary defense, especially 4th quarters and mounting injuries. About time this kid Vereen put up or shut up, with Bolden dinged up.

Sanchez threw for 80 yards today....the Pats only need to score early this next game to put it away. Their run defense is stout this season. If a turd like sanchez lights up the pats secondary and the front seven get no pressure, this team has problems...no question...I don't see that happening.

I'm not thinking about the regular season Joker, I'm concerned at the level of defensive play for the post-season and the years remaining with Brady at the helm.

I understand the need to rebuild and I understand that it takes time. It feels like the Patriots have been able to re-tool the O in record time and despite the changes on D, the results continue to be the same.

 

[Ifleninwasawizard]

Its easier to rebuild an O when you can lean on Brady most of the time. That is what happened last year. This is the first year where we can start to lean on the running game.

The D the last few years has really just been leaning totally on Mayo and Wilfork, who though they are really good players, aren't ever going to do what they do at Brady's level.

It took us a while, but we are on the verge of having a LB group as good as the Buschi days. We finally have a front 4 of Jones, Wilfork, Love, and Nink that is split between pro-bowl level and pretty solid. To me this looks like it has allowed Mayo and Spikes to come in on some blitzes the past few weeks and be pretty productive.

So our O and 2/3ds of our D are at very reasonable superbowl contention level. They didn't get there instantly, but out of a process of several years. Players needed to learn how to lean on each other. It is very possible that the same thing happens with our DB's. I'm not sure how much more a fan could reasonably ask for.

 

[Deus Irae]

The team was 1 for 6 in the red zone, and couldn't stop a terrible QB from lighting them up with deep rainbow passes.

I don't really see pointing this stuff out as being a hypocrite.

 

[JDot]

Everyone that defends this team for losing by one point is failing to miss the much larger picture. The secondary is complete crap and the "one point" garbage must be the same thing all of Belichick's yes men are feeding him.

And what about people who do not give the Seahawks D credit?

 

[JDot]

The team was 1 for 6 in the red zone, and couldn't stop a terrible QB from lighting them up with deep rainbow passes.

I don't really see pointing this stuff out as being a hypocrite.

The Pats DB's are bad. And they're even worse when Tavon Wilson and Nate Ebner are the safeties. Like that last TD for the Hawks...

 

[Kdo5]

I don't believe all is lost. We are the best of our division, we have one of if not the best QB in the NFL, we have a very talented offense. I expect to see us grabbing 10-11 wins and we'll be in the playoffs. But the problems may be too much.

Our secondary is miserable, its been a glaring problem for four seasons (2010 being the exception) and we cannot win in the playoffs with it. Big changes need to be made to minimize the damage and I am starting to wonder whether Belichick will quit being stubborn and get some talent into that backfield.

The offensive play calling, and just overall inability to close games out. They go stagnant with a lead and allow teams to creep back into it. It's a plague. If these issues aren't fixed it will be the death of us.

 

[ivanvamp]

LOL.

No dude.

We are not a great football team. Great football teams don't lose the way we did against Seattle and Arizona.

We have a very good offense and a below average defense.

No idea why the 1996 Packers popped into my head, but pretty much everyone would agree that that was a *great* team. But they lost 3 times:

30-21 at Minnesota, a 9-7 team
27-20 at Kansas City, a 9-7 team
21-6 at Dallas, a 10-6 team

So far, the Patriots have lost to:
a 4-2 and division-leading Cardinals team by two points,
a 4-2 and division-leading Seahawks team (tied with Ari) by two points, and
a 5-1 and division-leading Ravens team by one point

Is it better that the Pats lose to teams like the 1996 Packers did? Three losses by a combined 31 points instead of three losses by a combined 4 points?

Even great teams lose games. The Pats have lost impossibly close games by the narrowest of margins to three of the better teams in the league (record-wise, anyway). There's no shame in that.

Doesn't mean there isn't a lot of room for improvement, because there is.

 

[Ifleninwasawizard]

Our secondary is miserable, its been a glaring problem for four seasons (2010 being the exception) and we cannot win in the playoffs with it.

Well except for that time we won the AFC championship game and came close to winning the next game with practice squad CB's and Safeties that we picked up half way through the season.

Our DB's are more talented than last year and they will have more time to learn how to play with each other. Will that mean they are any good? No. It just means they are better off than they were last year. The other differences being that we have a significantly improved front 7 which is better than getting to the QB than last year.

 

[blackglass3]

Well except for that time we won the AFC championship game and came close to winning the next game with practice squad CB's and Safeties that we picked up half way through the season.

Our DB's are more talented than last year and they will have more time to learn how to play with each other. Will that mean they are any good? No. It just means they are better off than they were last year. The other differences being that we have a significantly improved front 7 which is better than getting to the QB than last year.

I must have missed the "Came Close to a Lombardi" Award presentation, because all I saw last season was all I see at the end of most seasons...a D falling to pieces at the end of a game and an O that can't do what it needs to when it counts. We choked in a big situation. We keep choking in big situations. Until this team DOESN'T choke in a big situation, I will continue to watch games expecting them to find a way to lose.

 

[The Gr8est]

I've realized this is the best way to describe this season: 3 kicks.

If Gostkowski hits the FG in Arizona we win. If the ravens kicker goes a literally a few inches to the right we win. If we kick a field goal at the half of this game we win. Those three little plays are the difference between us being .500 and undefeated.

In Arizona the D came up with a huge turnover that could have won us the game. The Ravens game was a travesty and consistently wiped away the good play of the D. In this game our D came up with a few important turnovers that weren't capitalized on. The play before Dennard got victimized they came up with a big stop on 3rd down.

I just don't think our D is light years away from being decent. The past few years we have been in major rebuilding mode and I think we are much closer to the end of that process than the beginning.

Just a small nitpick with the highlighted sentence.

Are you saying if the Ravens kicker goes a few more inches to the right we win because it is more obvious to the refs? The kick was shown to have been a miss already.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

We've developed the delusion that no matter how bad things are on D, Brady will always find a way. Unfortunately, that can't go on for ever.

The Patriots need a better D.

They need a functional secondary. The front 7 has the talent to be realistically as good as it gets. Trouble is they are being conservatively coached to play vanilla and rely on talent over scheme. Matchup wise that's not always enough. The OL and the secondary remain the achilles heels of this team. The 3/5ths OL is inconsistent in pass and run blocking. They can often do one or the other, can never do both consistently and you never know which day it is. I'm sure Dante is coaching them up to the max, but talent and experience are in short supply or battling injuries. The secondary is situationally inept due to a deadly combination of lesser talent being continually coached to play a largely failed scheme that almost eschews talent and functionally stifles any that might emerge.

 

[3-and-out]

I must have missed the "Came Close to a Lombardi" Award presentation, because all I saw last season was all I see at the end of most seasons...a D falling to pieces at the end of a game and an O that can't do what it needs to when it counts. We choked in a big situation. We keep choking in big situations. Until this team DOESN'T choke in a big situation, I will continue to watch games expecting them to find a way to lose.

Sadly, this is 100% correct. Brady is not the clutch QB that he used to be. Either that, or in his Super Bowl-winning days he was surrounded by MUCH better talent.

We will lose to the Jets. You can bank on that.

 

[FalconHeavy]

I must have missed the "Came Close to a Lombardi" Award presentation, because all I saw last season was all I see at the end of most seasons...a D falling to pieces at the end of a game and an O that can't do what it needs to when it counts. We choked in a big situation. We keep choking in big situations. Until this team DOESN'T choke in a big situation, I will continue to watch games expecting them to find a way to lose.

We are the colts of manning days now, only difference is they had the refs in their pockets but we don't. :bricks:

 

[olschool]

Speak for yourself not for me and others.

As for myself, I don't blame the offense at all.

Yesterday they gave the defense a 13 point lead under very difficult conditions, and they couldn't hold it.

Last week they gave the defense a 21 point lead, that they would have lost but for a strip / fumble recovery by the front seven.

I blame Belichick for not being able to figure out a fix for the pass defense for the last FIVE years !

Defensive "GENIUS" no more methinks.

 

[Tunescribe]

First, this is not the easiest schedule in the NFL. Maybe that was true in August, before we knew what really lay ahead. Seattle and Arizona are better than expected, the 49ers are pretty good, as is Houston, Baltimore, Denver, and even the Dolphins are better than expected.

Second, this team has loads of talent, but the execution just isn't there. It reminds me a bit of 2009, but I like this team a bit more than that one.

Time will tell.

I still think we'll murder the Jest next week.

Nicely reasoned post. I'll add a few more points from what I hope is a less-myopic perspective than most of what this thread comprises:

* Brady passed the ball 58 times, most in his career to date. This had more to do with what the league's top-rated defense was allowing vs. abandoning the run altogether. When the Pats did run, it simply didn't work well. And keep in mind that Bolden -- who had the best potential against Seattle's very physical defense -- left injured. Brady still performed well on a sloppy track; the two picks were bad but almost expected when you air it out 58 times. Remember: he STILL led the team to 23 points and well over 400 yards against the league's No. 1 defense.

* The intentional grounding at the end of the first half was a brain fart by Brady, especially with Gronk open in the right corner. But this might not all be on Tom, who was seen talking to Branch immediately after the play. It could be that Deon blew an end-line route. I support the call with 6 seconds left: On the road in bad weather it was worth the risk to practically put Seattle away in the first half.

* The injury absences on defense are pretty significant. Hightower and Gregory could've been difference makers yesterday (especially Gregory).

* I blame this loss more on pass defense than points the offense left on the field. Having rookies Dennard, Wilson and Ebner out there at the same time on the road, in the rain, under pressure situations just is not a good mix. Yes, the scheme/coaching might seem suspect and hopefully something can be adjusted there. But despite Seattle playing a rookie QB, he had solid protection and very good receivers to throw to, so the final outcome was understandable if disappointing.

* I think our fortunes going forward depend on health in the secondary. Remember how last year BB was able to hold it together well enough with duct tape and baling wire to win 13 games. Even with a similar situation this season, the defense STILL is improved.

* The Pats have lost two non-conference games and still have the inside track to winning the division. At this stage of the season, that's all that matters. With 10 games to go there's plenty of time and opportunity to fix the pass defense for a playoff run.