Watt Looked Unreal Tonight (update: homers vs cynics debate re: Pats draft decisions)

[condon84]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

You think they'd say anything else about an opposing player?

So someone who made 1st team All-Pro and have other football guys (in addition to BB and Nick) say is one of the top defensive players in the game today is overrated? What do these football analysts (former players, coaches, and GMs) have anything to gain by praising the guy? These guys watch and breakdown film that we don't have access to and do this for a living. You guys can pretend that you know what you're talking about by using NFL lingo/buzzwords and such, but frankly, you know as much as the next poster. I've only seen Matthews described as overrated on these boards, where for some reason, it seems like it's a pride issue to not give in and say we screwed up by passing on Clay.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

You'd think the Green Bay-Steelers Super Bowl would've been dispositive in the ongoing "Would Matthews fit on the Patriots" debate.

 

[Sciz]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

You'd think the Green Bay-Steelers Super Bowl would've been dispositive in the ongoing "Would Matthews fit on the Patriots" debate.

Especially the play where he got pushed back 5 yards by a backup TE.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

You'd think the Green Bay-Steelers Super Bowl would've been dispositive in the ongoing "Would Matthews fit on the Patriots" debate.

Well it looks like the next updated 2001 Edition is "would Watt fit on the Patriots"

People here need to trust in our scouts,coaches,namely Belichick and let them decide who is best for this team.

They know this team better than any of us do.....I personally think Matthews would have worked out well...I can't see him being a bust in New England but an all pro in GB,the guy has some talented blood in his veins.....but I can live with that.

Like I said before,when we miss on a good player or draft a bum we make it up by drafting 2 or 3 top quality players.

 

[condon84]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Jays52 didn't bash Matthews- but citing Matthews does raise eyebrows because he is a strict one-gap player, he's pretty much a one-trick pony, and would have floundered in a two-gap system, never mind BB's system, where if you're a linebacker, you have to be able to do everything short of punting the ball.

How do you know? You say it with such a finality.

It's the same argument when people say Welker was made by our system. How do we know he wouldn't succeed in another system. He's a good player.

BB went after Zach Thomas, hell, he signed Seau who was the ultimate free lancer and was successful here even at an old age.

 

[jays52]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

So someone who made 1st team All-Pro and have other football guys (in addition to BB and Nick) say is one of the top defensive players in the game today is overrated? What do these football analysts (former players, coaches, and GMs) have anything to gain by praising the guy? These guys watch and breakdown film that we don't have access to and do this for a living. You guys can pretend that you know what you're talking about by using NFL lingo/buzzwords and such, but frankly, you know as much as the next poster. I've only seen Matthews described as overrated on these boards, where for some reason, it seems like it's a pride issue to not give in and say we screwed up by passing on Clay.

Yeah man, I'll concede the pride thing. I think there's a lot of that involved, and absolutely with myself. However, I don't really think you're seeing our point about how overrated he is. He's easy to run on, he's sh*t in coverage, if you stone his first move he's incredibly easy to beat one on one. Is he fast? Yes. Is he shiny? Sure! That doesn't make him as good as you think he is.

But those pro bowl ballots done by players are done in a dismissive manner, writers often times make statistical scale, and I don't pretend to know about the coaches but I'd be willing to bet they aren't horribly concerned about the pro bowl.

 

[Shelterdog]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Especially the play where he got pushed back 5 yards by a backup TE.

Yup, but the bottom line is Clay Matthews is a very good player who could help the team.

Could we have predicted that the 240 pound one year starter with 4.5 sacks in college would put on 20 pounds in his first two years in the NFL and increase his quickness and strength and become the player he has? Nobody really knew that - he wouldn't have lasted as late in the draft if people thought he could "magically" make strength and speed gains like he has.

Is one lottery ticket on Clay worth the four Edelman/Tate/Gronk/Butler lottery tickets? Hard to say at the time of the trade, and I still wouldn't undo the trade in retrospect but it's close. At the end of everybody's rookie contracts we can make a final judgment.

 

[Sciz]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Yup, but the bottom line is Clay Matthews is a very good player who could help the team.

Could we have predicted that the 240 pound one year starter with 4.5 sacks in college would put on 20 pounds in his first two years in the NFL and increase his quickness and strength and become the player he has? Nobody really knew that - he wouldn't have lasted as late in the draft if people thought he could "magically" make strength and speed gains like he has.

That's one of biggest problems with him. He's up to 260 now, but he still can't take on TEs in the running game consistently.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

How do you know? You say it with such a finality.

It's the same argument when people say Welker was made by our system. How do we know he wouldn't succeed in another system. He's a good player.

BB went after Zach Thomas, hell, he signed Seau who was the ultimate free lancer and was successful here even at an old age.

How do I know? I don't know truly, that's for certain. Like you say in another post, ultimately we're all on one level and the people inside the NFL are on a completely different level and have the access that we don't, such as looking at all-22 game tape all day long and being able to interview those players in person, question them. This, however, shouldn't prevent us from debating for fun.

Based on what I have seen of Clay, and based on what others have written or spoken about him, and based on my assumption that BB has looked at tapes of Clay, and has sat down with him to interview him about what it means to be in a two-gap system, and what it means to drop back in coverage when you're facing a stacked slot, who do you pick up and what do you do when you see a rub coming. Maybe Clay gave some answers that BB wasn't too happy with?

However as many mistakes BB makes, I do know he is throughout and diligent and does as much as he can to reduce the gambling to a minimum when it comes to drafting.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Well, at least you said it... Ian needs to borrow one of those check your ego at the door signs from Bill.

Says the guys who started a response to someone else that I just read with "Kneejerk reaction - you have to know what you're looking at." Pot, kettle, etc. etc.

Now would be a great time to bring up one of your many overblown rants about how Ochocinco would never be a Patriot, and you knew that because you possessed some unique understanding of his personality and what Belichick looks at for players. You've got the largest ego on this board, and it's not even close.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

It's possible that watt was playing against SCRUB players, and maybe that's why he looked so good. Interesting guy, but we took an OL...and who knows, maybe he'll be the better player in the long run.

 

[condon84]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Yeah man, I'll concede the pride thing. I think there's a lot of that involved, and absolutely with myself. However, I don't really think you're seeing our point about how overrated he is. He's easy to run on, he's sh*t in coverage, if you stone his first move he's incredibly easy to beat one on one. Is he fast? Yes. Is he shiny? Sure! That doesn't make him as good as you think he is.

But those pro bowl ballots done by players are done in a dismissive manner, writers often times make statistical scale, and I don't pretend to know about the coaches but I'd be willing to bet they aren't horribly concerned about the pro bowl.

We'll agree to disagree on Clay. I see your point but I don't agree with the overrated tag. If he was so easy to run, then teams would be gaining 5+ yards a pop on his side and march right down the field. Is he as stout against the run as McGinest? No, but the other aspects of his game makes up for it.

He's a good player. He'd find success in any system.

 

[Sciz]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

It's possible that watt was playing against SCRUB players, and maybe that's why he looked so good. Interesting guy, but we took an OL...and who knows, maybe he'll be the better player in the long run.

And it took me to realize this, but Solder is the offensive tackle version of Watt. Good work ethic, elite physical tools, needs a little bulking up and technique work.

 

[folamzz]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

So someone who made 1st team All-Pro and have other football guys (in addition to BB and Nick) say is one of the top defensive players in the game today is overrated? What do these football analysts (former players, coaches, and GMs) have anything to gain by praising the guy? These guys watch and breakdown film that we don't have access to and do this for a living. You guys can pretend that you know what you're talking about by using NFL lingo/buzzwords and such, but frankly, you know as much as the next poster. I've only seen Matthews described as overrated on these boards, where for some reason, it seems like it's a pride issue to not give in and say we screwed up by passing on Clay.

Welcome to patsfans. The homers here believe belichick is the only who knows football. They sing the praises of BB for selecting mallett after playing against 3rd teamers but belittle jj watts for great activity against starters. Mallett is a 6-7 slow footed quarterback who can't move to escape the rush if he's life depended on it. If a guy can play he can play, we all knew gronkowski could play when we saw him last year in the preseason. Watts is a perfect fit for the one-gap penetrating 3-4 defense that wade phillips runs. BB has gotten embarassed recently by john harbaugh(first year coach), tom coughlin and rex ryan; but belichick is still the only one who knows football. There are many ways to build a football team, many ways to win football games and championships. Lets stop this arrogance that BB is the only smart guy in football.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Welcome to patsfans. The homers here believe belichick is the only who knows football. They sing the praises of BB for selecting mallett after playing against 3rd teamers but belittle jj watts for great activity against starters. Mallett is a 6-7 slow footed quarterback who can't move to escape the rush if he's life depended on it. If a guy can play he can play, we all knew gronkowski could play when we saw him last year in the preseason. Watts is a perfect fit for the one-gap penetrating 3-4 defense that wade phillips runs. BB has gotten embarassed recently by john harbaugh(first year coach), tom coughlin and rex ryan; but belichick is still the only one who knows football. There are many ways to build a football team, many ways to win football games and championships. Lets stop this arrogance that BB is the only smart guy in football.

I don't think anyone in here is saying Belichick is the only one who knows about football but more so that he is the best evaluator of the game from players to Xs and Os ...and thats the damn truth.

Before you 'educate' us as to your knowledge of how Belichick is by far not the best mind in the game today, how about seperating your sentences for human reading....that would be a start.

 

[D-Money]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Heyward looked good as well for the steelers.I was just surprised that they never took a DT/DE in the draft considering the amount of value there was.

 

[Shelterdog]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Heyward looked good as well for the steelers.I was just surprised that they never took a DT/DE in the draft considering the amount of value there was.

Isn't it pretty clear that BB thinks you can get good DL relatively cheap in free agency?

 

[D-Money]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

I much rather have a young stud on the DL.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

You'd think the Green Bay-Steelers Super Bowl would've been dispositive in the ongoing "Would Matthews fit on the Patriots" debate.

Mankins is the best LG in the NFL unless, of course, the 2007 Super Bowl is dispositive of his ability. The notion that one game defines Matthews is just as wrong.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Welcome to patsfans. The homers here believe belichick is the only who knows football. They sing the praises of BB for selecting mallett after playing against 3rd teamers but belittle jj watts for great activity against starters. Mallett is a 6-7 slow footed quarterback who can't move to escape the rush if he's life depended on it. If a guy can play he can play, we all knew gronkowski could play when we saw him last year in the preseason. Watts is a perfect fit for the one-gap penetrating 3-4 defense that wade phillips runs. BB has gotten embarassed recently by john harbaugh(first year coach), tom coughlin and rex ryan; but belichick is still the only one who knows football. There are many ways to build a football team, many ways to win football games and championships. Lets stop this arrogance that BB is the only smart guy in football.

Welcome to patsfans.

It's at about this time in the thread where the idiots show up.

They most often post stupid comments and mask it as talking about "homers".

They show off how stupid they are by claiming that other posters think BB can do no wrong. Then then display further ignorance by claiming a loss has to be an "embarassment".

The real embarassment around here are these ignoramous types who existance is to flaunt how ignorant they are.