Watt Looked Unreal Tonight (update: homers vs cynics debate re: Pats draft decisions)

[Water Boy]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Brook Reed didn't look too shabby. Unlike Watt who was long gone before the Pats picked, Reed was available in the second round. Looks like Clay Matthews 2. Interesting to compare him to Ras-I Dowling and Vereen.

I was thinking the same thing. Ras I will have to definitely be a player for me not to join the Brooks Reed Lament Club.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Just wanted to give a heads up in appreciation of a guy who looks like a special player. Everything I saw pre-draft shone through tonight. Heavy, heavy hands, a good compliment of counter moves, highly stout against the run. Watt looked very special against the Jets' one's tonight.

....and yeah, Barwin stood out as well. Damn Texans taking perfect Patriots!!!

Watt was one of several players on my list. Solder was not one on my list for the 1st round.

Who is right, us or BB? I guess we will have to see how things play out.

Lets say that both players turn out to be very solid starters. which was the most important? The solid DE who can rush the passer. Or the solid LT that protects the blind side for the franchise QB, TFB, or in coming years perhaps Mallett.

It's easy for use to watch players in college, look at their write ups in draft guides and make choices. We are not responsible or accountable for our choices.

Having said that, I still think I was right and BB was wrong on Clay Matthews, not matter how you slice it.

 

[Ivan]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

I'm happy with the Solder pick. Franchise LT's are really hard to come by and paired with Vollmer the Patriots appear to have a pair of bookend tackles to protect the franchise for the rest of his career.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

The Pats would have had to trade into the top 10 to get Watt (he was taken 11th). The Redskins traded the 10th pick to the Jags for their first (one pick before the Pats) and their second. So the Pats would have had to give up more than a first and a second to either out bid the Jags or move up to the 10th or higher. And at the time, few people if any expected Watt to go as high as 11.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Precisely. Not every will become a heinously overhyped piss-poor scheme fit.


...and I know I'm going to sound like a jerk by saying this but I don't think you have a leg to stand on as an evaluator of talent. Anyone can provide a cursory comparison that makes no sense and try to provide an argument. In full candor, the fact that you cited Clay Matthews actually devalues your argument. There is a lot of complexity, strategy, and beauty in football. I invite you to look at the players games and cross reference that with schematic requirement. Football is given too much credit for it's complexity while in reality it is quite simple. Check out the patscast podcast, gain the tools needed for an evaluation before making one. I'm all for a differing take, I'd just want some depth to the argument.

Well, at least you said it... Ian needs to borrow one of those check your ego at the door signs from Bill.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

I would have much preferred Watt to Solder, IMO we already have a franchise LT in Vollmer, RTs are easier and cheaper to come by.

I wish Houston luck, I'm hoping they take over the division and Indy misses the playoffs. If that happens Caldwell will be fired and Gruden will take over, who will also grab Tebow, this could be very interesting.

 

[patchick]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Watt was my draft binky too, and he showed such an incredible learning curve in college that I have a lot of confidence in his NFL potential.

But alas (as the OP realized but some others seem to be losing sight of), the Pats simply didn't have a shot at him. Trading up is hardly a given -- a lot of teams in that part of the draft were determined to stand pat, and besides, the Pats would have had to be psychic and guess that Houston would ignore all their more pressing draft needs to take Watt.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Precisely. Not every will become a heinously overhyped piss-poor scheme fit.


...and I know I'm going to sound like a jerk by saying this but I don't think you have a leg to stand on as an evaluator of talent. Anyone can provide a cursory comparison that makes no sense and try to provide an argument. In full candor, the fact that you cited Clay Matthews actually devalues your argument. There is a lot of complexity, strategy, and beauty in football. I invite you to look at the players games and cross reference that with schematic requirement. Football is given too much credit for it's complexity while in reality it is quite simple. Check out the patscast podcast, gain the tools needed for an evaluation before making one. I'm all for a differing take, I'd just want some depth to the argument.

Ahhh... Ya might want to refrain from questioning anyone's intelligence. It's that glass house concept.

Lauding effort after one preseason game shows that the concept of basic intelligence is more vital than technical expertise is very valid.

 

[Synovia]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

I was going to post this actually. Texans are a good case for our draft board as they seem to have alot of players people on this board wanted BB to take. Barwin, Watt, Other outside LB with long hair.

Should be interesting to see how they go

Seems like the case every year, and yet every year, the Texans defense is abysmal.


Maybe the people on the board have no friggen idea what they're talking about.

 

[patfanken]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

What I don't understand in the controversy is why can't Watt be a good player, and STILL not be worth what it would take to move up. Why is it that he needs to be a bust in order for us to feel that it wasn't a mistake to pass him up.

A question for Jay. Was Watts performance in his exhibition game any more impressive than Solder's after less than a week in camp?

Second - Lets assume we DID trade up and get Watt. Its been noted that the Pats could have done that by trading its first, one of the 2nds, and probably a 3rd. What then would be the consequences of those actions. Do we lose the 2 picks in next year's draft....and the players who we will be picking. Do we lose Mallet or Riddley in the 3rd In other words is Watt THAT special that he justifies what we ended up with.

Watt was my personal binky predraft, and I think he's going to be a super player and an eventual all pro. But I think the same of Solder after I got to see him in action, and if I have a choice of an picking an all pro LT and a all pro DE, I think the LT is more impactful over the long term

And for the record, I prayed we would NOT draft Reed, who wasn't even the best rusher on a bad team. Reed might make some ESPN highlight reels, but he will never be a consistent player. He is a guy who will have more negative plays than positive ones over the course of a full season. And if that wasn't enough....he badly needs a haircut




We

 

[spacecrime]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

I know I'm going to sound like a jerk by saying this but I don't think you have a leg to stand on as an evaluator of talent

Jerk? no. Stater of the obvious, yes.

There are some people - Gary Tanguay is one of them - that do not believe you can evaluate talent positively in preseason games, even when a guy is going against the other team's ones. If a guy does well, it doesn't matter because it is only preseason. (If he plays poorly, that's a different story. It means he is a bust.)

I think you have to be smart about it. No one knows whether Mallett can read an NFL defense yet, but you can tell that he has NFL-caliber arm strength and that he can put the ball where it belongs accurately. When flush from the pocket, his first thokught was not to tuck and run like, but to keep his eyes downfield. That one play where he ran to his right, eyes downfield and threw rather than run reminded me of Rothliesberger. I forget if the pass was completed, but that is irrelevant. The point is that he didn't lose sight of the fact that he is a QB, not an RB, and did his job.

Anyway, I think you CAN tell a lot from pre-season games, a lot more than you can from practices. A big difference between live tackling a RB aiming to bruise than a walk-through.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Seems like the case every year, and yet every year, the Texans defense is abysmal.

Heh heh. So true.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Jerk? no. Stater of the obvious, yes.

There are some people - Gary Tanguay is one of them - that do not believe you can evaluate talent positively in preseason games, even when a guy is going against the other team's ones. If a guy does well, it doesn't matter because it is only preseason. (If he plays poorly, that's a different story. It means he is a bust.)

I think you have to be smart about it. No one knows whether Mallett can read an NFL defense yet, but you can tell that he has NFL-caliber arm strength and that he can put the ball where it belongs accurately. When flush from the pocket, his first thokught was not to tuck and run like, but to keep his eyes downfield. That one play where he ran to his right, eyes downfield and threw rather than run reminded me of Rothliesberger. I forget if the pass was completed, but that is irrelevant. The point is that he didn't lose sight of the fact that he is a QB, not an RB, and did his job.

Anyway, I think you CAN tell a lot from pre-season games, a lot more than you can from practices. A big difference between live tackling a RB aiming to bruise than a walk-through.

There is a difference between

(Guy) played well and looked great in his first preseason game

vs

(Guy) is a great player because of the first preseason game.

I have no problem with posters acknowledging the effort of a binkie. However, this shouldn't be extrapolated to a bust on Canton by Wednesday.

 

[Badger]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

As a Wisconsin alumn and someone who has seen every Badger game that Watt has played in, he may very well be an emerging superstar. He has an unreal motor and a ton of moves. They referred to the fact last night that one talent evaluator called him a young Howie Long. Very proud of him as a fellow Badger and sure wish the Pats would have had the opporunity to pick him.

 

[borg]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Personally, I think Watt would have been a hell of a Patriot and a great fit for this new D. That being said....you can't draft them all. Watts wasn't on the board at 16 and BB rarely trades up, so why get into these futile debates.
Be happy the Patriots locked up an inexpensive LT long term at a premium money position. Be happy that the Patriots have created a LT succession plan that will allow Dante to mold Solder and maintain OL stability and continuity. With Solder and a healthy Canon, the OL is 4/5s rebuilt. Protect the franchise QB now and into the future.
The 2011 Patriots draft will be known as the "depth draft" and over the 16 game season, this depth may set the Patriots apart from many teams. And the beauty of BB is....he has created the unlimited 2nd round annuity that will keep his team stocked and stacked like no other team in the NFL. Plus, not only do we get to root for the Patriots...BB gives us a team or two to root against every year.....Booooooo Saints.....Booooo Raiders

 

[condon84]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Precisely. Not every will become a heinously overhyped piss-poor scheme fit.


...and I know I'm going to sound like a jerk by saying this but I don't think you have a leg to stand on as an evaluator of talent. Anyone can provide a cursory comparison that makes no sense and try to provide an argument. In full candor, the fact that you cited Clay Matthews actually devalues your argument. There is a lot of complexity, strategy, and beauty in football. I invite you to look at the players games and cross reference that with schematic requirement. Football is given too much credit for it's complexity while in reality it is quite simple. Check out the patscast podcast, gain the tools needed for an evaluation before making one. I'm all for a differing take, I'd just want some depth to the argument.

I love how you question someone's ability to evaluate talent and then bash Clay Matthews when everyone from BB, Casserio, and other football guys have praised Clay as a very good player.

 

[Sciz]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

I love how you question someone's ability to evaluate talent and then bash Clay Matthews when everyone from BB, Casserio, and other football guys have praised Clay as a very good player.

Who have they ever said a bad thing about? Matthews is a good player, but that doesn't stop him from being the most overrated player in the NFL.

 

[jays52]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

I love how you question someone's ability to evaluate talent and then bash Clay Matthews when everyone from BB, Casserio, and other football guys have praised Clay as a very good player.

You think they'd say anything else about an opposing player?

 

[jays52]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

Well, at least you said it... Ian needs to borrow one of those check your ego at the door signs from Bill.

Damn! I got served! I tell ya what, that Jays52 is no Tommy. Oh yeah, my buddy Tommy sure does work hard and is morally perfect, just like me.

Are you Michelle Bachmann's husband, too? Because if so, bravo.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: OT: Watt Looked Unreal Tonight

I love how you question someone's ability to evaluate talent and then bash Clay Matthews when everyone from BB, Casserio, and other football guys have praised Clay as a very good player.

Jays52 didn't bash Matthews- but citing Matthews does raise eyebrows because he is a strict one-gap player, he's pretty much a one-trick pony, and would have floundered in a two-gap system, never mind BB's system, where if you're a linebacker, you have to be able to do everything short of punting the ball.