Waters Situation Takes A Turn For The Worse

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFans.com Article, Sep 8, 2012.

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  1. PatsFans.com Article

    PatsFans.com Article In the Starting Line-Up

    Waters Situation Takes A Turn For The Worse
    By: Steve Balestrieri

    So will Waters' absence spell doom for the Patriots and their offensive line this season? Of more importance right now is the health of right tackle Sebastian Vollmer....

  2. patman52

    patman52 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    If Bill does not think he is going to show, he should ask if Waters wants to play for the Boys, and get a 4th or something out of it.

    If he wants to stay close to home, so be it. he did good for us last year for little money, just let him move on.
  3. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Pay the man his asking price. He's worth it.
  4. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

    If Waters doesn't want to be here, shame on him for signing a two year contract and not fulfilling that contract. I don't fault any person for putting their family first, but don't ask the team to do you any favors by trading you to a Texas team.

    I can't see money being an issue here for the Patriots - as they need Waters, granted that is only my opinion. But knowing that Brian Waters contemplated retirement after last season, I side more with the idea that Waters money wasn't the issue here.

    The issue is Brian and his desire to play.

    And I imagine, as this saga continued, the Patriots were less and less willing to give him more money for less commitment.
  5. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    There are so many things wrong with that plan.
  6. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #32 Jersey

    They would never be able to receive a 4th round pick in trade compensation, patman52. You are strongly overestimating the potential value that a 35+ yr old player who may/may not even have a passion for football and missed camp would bring, and that isn't even bringing up the fact that he probably wouldn't be there past this season.

    It would be a late round pick at best. Remember that Waters has strongly contemplated retiring the past 2 seasons, and if he did come back this year it would most likely be for one last season. No one will pay a 4th round pick for a one year player in his specific situation. A 6th or 7th would be much more appropriate, and even that isn't written in stone in my opinion.

    There's also the factor that it takes 2 parties to agree to a trade, not to mention the fact that Belichick may not deem it worthy to make a competitor better simply for a low round pick. The fact that there are rumors that Waters doesn't want to leave the state of Texas surely makes it more difficult to make a trade too.

    The only way I think a trade would be worth it is if the Cowboys would part with a late round pick, unless of course Waters is willing to go somewhere else in the NFC--which we don't know at this point.

    Either way, if Belichick feels a trade can be had and it will be beneficial for the team, I'm sure he would do it.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  7. RIpats88

    RIpats88 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    i think he deserves his contract...he was one of our most reliable OL last year..and if preseason is anything to go by would be a huge help this year....the same things happening with Welker..Brady's most trusted target and security blanket and they wont(or at least havent yet) reward him.

    the only gripe i have with the patriots is their reluctance to reward players who have performed for them and are still vital to the team due to age...now you can say the system has worked because this team has won consistently with basically a totally rebuilt roster..

    but you cant help think sometimes what if say the pats payed branch...would there be another superbowl from 06?
  8. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth In the Starting Line-Up

    This pains me to say this but Felger is right on this one. If the Patriots asked Waters to take a pay cut then shame on them. They cheaping out on a guy that can protect their franchise. If Brady goes down then the Patriots will look really really bad and really really greedy.
  9. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    That's what you get for listening to Felger. He couldn't understand that the bold isn't right either.
  10. Raymond

    Raymond Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    No Jersey Selected

    Waters is not here simply due to geography, not money.
  11. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Name them, please.
  12. bagwell368

    bagwell368 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    No sir. He signed a contract. He got out of going to camp. Him or his agent figured they could cash in on the Pats issues with the OL. He should get a pay cut with maybe a bonus for games played.

    If BB caves in maybe neXt year Wilfork will decide he doesn't want to show up for camp and get a raise too boot.

    Screw waters. He comes back on BB's terms or gets used to retirement. Too bad he's so close to being a HOF.
  13. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #32 Jersey

    Curran wrote an article today that claimed that he had heard from multiple sources that the team actually offered him an increase in pay that was considered substantial by some over the summer, yet he still refused to play. It seems as though he just doesn't want to leave home to many, and that could be much more of a factor than the money issue. Hopefully we'll eventually find out more.

    It certainly doesn't seem as though the team was trying to be cheap by any means. The report that came out yesterday had admittedly vague information and sources, and that is how the whole 'cheap' argument came about. It could be that the team actually was trying to increase Waters' pay by offering him gameday active incentives too, only they were trying to do it in a more creative way (which still doesn't really add up due to the fact that the cap hit would have likely been around the same money, but it does help to explain where the whole 'cheap' thinking came from).
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  14. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    #24 Jersey

    A good way to get rich ... bet that FredFromDartmouth will chime in with a Felger take. :bricks:

    You forgot to mention that after having all the facts even Felger agreed with the Patriots.
  15. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I've gone into more detail in that one other thread, but as a summary:

    Letting Waters skip camp with no opportunity cost sets a really bad precedent for other veterans, that they can get away with doing the same.

    Waters has led the organization on by reportedly being okay with restructuring his contract to be based more on health than it previously was.

    Giving Waters a raise on top of letting him skip all of training camp would make Belichick look like an absolute fool.

    Back to the precedent for a second, giving a vet a raise to report would just lead to more of the exact same thing. Two million to Waters may seem like nothing, but when Wilfork wants it, we're up to $4M, and so on.
  16. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth In the Starting Line-Up

    And why not? Felger the biggest DB in New England followed closely by Dennis and Callahan. He and his buddies make it intolerable for athletes to play here. It amuses me greatly to watch D & C drive people out of town and then wonder why the Red Sox suck. They will never admit it but they lead the charge to get rid of Francona last year; so how's that working out you there Callahan?
  17. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle brady plz PatsFans.com Supporter

    Also shame on every team who has ever cut a player, thereby also not fulfilling the contract.
  18. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    FWIW Back in the day Bill reached an agreement to pay Ty Law a substantial off season workout bonus that didn't require him to work out here... Bill does business as business is done. And I guarantee you there is not a guy in that locker room who doesn't think Waters is worth whatever it takes to get him on their side when it comes to winning and losing. Players only resent seeing guys who don't help their cause or do their job getting paid more than they are worth.

    Waters was due to be paid $2.25M in total this season. He made $2.75M last season because he earned all of his already existing incentives. He was worth well more than that. I get that he's a year older, but they always knew and reportedly had an agreement that he wouldn't be here in the off season come year two. What prompted them to do anything with a reasonable existing deal they opted for is mindboggling because nothing they did was going to impact their cap UNLESS he didn't get his playing time. That is probably what began to dawn on him, especially after they went out and signed Gallery to a $1.8M deal with a $400K signing bonus. That's where the trust factor comes in. It's all well and good to say a paycut isn't really a paycut if you've inventivized the deal to allow the player to recoup it. But if he gets injured, or if you simply choose not to start him and he becomes a defacto insurance backup...he's not getting that money back. And he's probably not in position to earn his remaining incentives, either. So then he's looking at leaving his home and family and risking his health for another $900K. And a guy who is probably looking at one last year at most who has banked tens of millions earlier in his career has little incentive to do that.

    Curran is right about one thing, it just doesn't mean what you think. There is a lot more to this story than a pay cut or restructure or whatever it was.
  19. bagwell368

    bagwell368 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Good start of a list. But Borges from a Pats POV is the #1 d bag.

    Why Ron Borges should be fired
  20. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth In the Starting Line-Up

    Yeah but Borges is sort of off the scale.

    The douche bag list would be something like this in this order:
    John Dennis
    and the herald twerp who broke the phony Patriots scoop
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
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