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Was this a "rebuilding" year?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Dagg, Jan 11, 2010.

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  1. Dagg

    Dagg Rookie

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    Most teams rebuild and go 3-13, we made the playoffs. If you look at what went down:

    Bru retires
    Harrison retires
    Vrabel traded
    Seymour traded
    Hobbs traded

    We got alot younger but lost alot of experience and leadership on Defense. Am I just trying to put a label on it to make myself feel better? If your gunning for the superbowl I dont know how you can trade a Richard Seymour that trade smacks of 1 step back this year 2 steps forward down the road.

    Offensively we didnt change much but we didnt really need to. We definatley needed WR help going in and Galloway not working out put us in a hole. I look at say GB and Ariz and I think there 3 and 4 guys are outstanding (Breaston, Jones, Doucet, that white kid for GB) we have Aiken and Edelmen. I love Edelman but his niche is exaclty the same as welkers. Loss of Gaffney really stands out IMO.

    So was this "rebuilding" or just the normal "offseason" moves?
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was a rebuilding year. And to win the division in a rebuilding year is no mean feat. Many of us (myself included) underestimated the extent to which it was a rebuilding year at the beginning of the season, thinking that the return of TB and some talented youngsters would compensate for the loss of veteran leadership. But it was clearly a rebuilding year.
  3. satz

    satz Rookie

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    NO . rebuilding means you have the pieces to compete for next year.

    we run a 3-4 with a 1 true starting caliber LB in Mayo.guyton is not physical enough to play early downs and burgess/banta are 3rd down guys too.so we need 3 Starting caliber LB.

    We have a offence where Moss was isolated and beatup for all 16 weeks as there is no threat other than him on the outside. He took some major hits when he ran crossing patterns.Next year we 2 WR .

    DL - They isolated vince and ty and ran off there left tackle on Green again do you see anyone there. so we need a 3-4 END next year.

    OL-Now that some game tape was on vollmer they again ran stunts to isolate Johnson on him and how many times did you see come free at brady.We need a gaurd . I would move vollmer in and get another good tackle.



    so many holes!!!.
  4. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    On defense it was. With the Seymour trade, it was clear BB was not putting a whole lot into this season, though the team was fairly competitive. To expect more out of this defense this year is asking too much.

    Our offense though was a true letdown. I can excuse the defense because once again they are a work in progress and there were only 2 games where I felt they were the prime reason for losing. The rest were on the offense which was supposed to be our strength this season.
  5. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    Not rebuilding.

    To me rebuilding is when a team makes a conscious and clear effort to make moves and clear out certain players with the intention of bringing in new talent to compete in years ahead. Rebuilding a team takes multiple years and is a big shakeup.

    Normally that means intentionally clearing out much of your roster, maybe even some very good players, and through drafting and free agency trying to build a new team around your existing younger stars.

    What the Pats were doing this year is something that many teams in many sports constantly do and deal with. Guys are going to retire, some years more than others. Guys are going to be traded. It happens.

    Rebuilding is a conscious effort done intentionally at the organizational level. Whereas filling gaps left by trades and retirement is something every team has to deal with to some extent every year.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  6. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    somewhere along the line, things have changed for the pats. it used to be where when the pats let someone go, they were rarely heard from again. now the guys leaving are still making noise in other places. you could be the one of the best CBs in the league, be dumped by the pats and go on to still be a probowler for another team while the pats secondary continually gets burned and then people still call BB a genius. then there's seymour, and watching teams go straight at jarvis green (one sack this year even though he got more playing time than ever).

    I believe the biggest problem is that the genius has gotten too full of himself and it will never be more evident as when wilfork (the highest character guy on the team) decides he does not want to be here anymore)

    you could say the pats are rocky balboa and the ravens were clubber lang yesterday.......see if the pats can do something about it or if we have really just witnessed the end of an era
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  7. zimmy

    zimmy Rookie

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    Belichick doesn't believe in rebuilding years. His whole philosophy is about not selling your future and trying to compete for championships every year manage the cap, move older players on etc I don't think anyone thought we were rebuilding before the season began. Our team just wasn't as good as years past. Thats it.
  8. Koettbulle

    Koettbulle Rookie

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    More like a transition year.
  9. klinefan

    klinefan Banned

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    Right, we rebuilt with Burgess, trading a 3rd and 5th for a one year rental for a JAG.

    That's rebuilding?

    Yeah, rebuilding. Get real.

    Who is gone next year?

    Neal,
    Light
    Moss (possibly)
    Morris
    Taylor
    Maroney
    Burgess
    Green (no loss there)
    Thomas (good riddance)
    Faulk (see him possibly retiring, he's old)
    Bodden (FA)

    Offensive Coor.
    Defensive Coor.

    Next year is rebuilding. You homers amaze me. "Yeah, we rebuilt this year and still made the playoffs!:singing: Don't think so, homer.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That may be his philosophy, but we really weren't competitive for the championship this year. We teased a bit, but it became fairly apparent by late in the season when we continued to struggle with basic execution issues that this team didn't have what it took to make a deep run. Yes, we might have pulled an Arizona and surprised some folks in the playoffs, but the odds were the we would go out no later than the divisional round. Not a serious contender. And we certainly mortgaged for the future with the Seymour trade.

    You could make an argument that BB read the tea leaves in training camp and decided that reloading for 2010-2012 was more important than the odds of success in 2009. Or it could be that he misread things completely and thought that we would be a contender anyway, as many of us did.
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, that is how I would put it. The Pats were making significant changes while being competitive for the playoffs.
  12. Fball

    Fball Rookie

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    The Patriots struck gold with Tom Brady. Any year that he is QB should be a year that they are putting forth the best effort to win a championship.

    A lot of younger fans will better understand the term "rebuilding" when he retires.
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is unrealistic in today's NFL to expect a team to be an elite team year after year. Every team loses players due to the cap. To field a strong Super Bowl competitor year after year is unrealistic. Teams will have down years and if a 10 win season with no playoff wins is a down year, I can deal with it. Even the 80s 49ers and 70s Steelers had down years.

    Brady has more Super Bowl appearances and wins than any QB of this era. Yet, we beat up this team more than any other fans when they don't win a Super Bowl. Imagine being an Indy fan who have had Manning as their QB for three more years than the Pats have had Brady and have three less Super Bowl appearances and two less wins to show for it.
  14. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Yes, that's the proper word.

    Belichick brought a lot of new players into the mix this year, some vets that would hopefully keep the team in the Super Bowl mix (Burgess, Galloway, Taylor) and a lot of youth through the draft and free agency.

    But that was not a sure fire recipe, and a lot of fans pointed that out.

    In the NFL, the league is so mediocre, that the freakin' Jets have a chance to do some damage. Maybe New Orleans and San Diego are really good, but maybe they're not. If a couple things had panned out for the Patriots, say Burgess and Galloway (without Welker being hurt) I do think the Patriots could compete at the highest levels even though I don't think they'd be a top 4 team WITH those players panning out.

    So, this means you rebuild but you also keep in mind the NFL is a league full of parity, where the Jets lose to the dregs one week, and are declared the team that no one wants to play the next week. It's stupid to tear apart your team when Tom Brady is your QB in such a league.

    I've read posts on here that are ripping Vollmer and Darius Butler. shocking posts, I tell ya, because the guys who made the Patriots the Patriots did not look ANY better when they were rookies. I clearly remember what Bruschi and McGinest were doing back in the mid 90s as young pups. I'm sure Vrabel was 3rd string too that first year in Pitt. Who did Ty Law replace? Ricky Reynolds or someone like that?

    The point is, those who are declaring the Patriots totally talentless need to realize that this team is one strong draft and maybe one or two good FA signings of high character vets away from dominating again.

    In the meantime, you can keep a Randy Moss for a year or two while you make that transition, because you are not in cap hell, and you can afford that luxury.

    I do see a lot of young talent, and some of them YES I'm really skeptical about, such as Guyton and Brace and Wilhite, but it would not surprise me at all if Guyton becomes the next Roman Phifer and Wilhite becomes an Otis Smith (Brace, well, I'm not holding out hope). I think Seb Vollmer can become a Bruce Armstrong and Darius Butler can be a Ray Clayborn type, Edelman will be an excellent 3rd WR, and our secondary with Chung, Sanders, Meriweather may actually fire out what playing safety is all about, and when they do, look out.

    So, what do we look for in the draft? DEs and OLBs who can pass rush, and just start drafting WRs exclusively in the later rounds. I don't care if you draft 7 of them, just do it.

    When you look at the 3rd-4th-5th rounds, you see a lot of good WRs taken, none game breakers, but a lot of 2nd WR types. Mike Wallace, Deon Butler, Austin Collie, Johnny Knox, etc. If there's one thing I criticize our draft guys about, it's their inability not to see value in those middle rounds, to just piss away some of those picks. They just don't see to value players in the 4th and 5th rounds because those guys are tweeners (i.e. guys who are well scouted but don't have the athleticism and measurables) whereas the later round guys re under-the-radar diamonds in the rough who are passed over for one reason or another (Brady, Pryor, Edelman, etc.).

    Look for OLBs and DEs early--you need a pass rush. Call Pete Carroll and trade for Lofa Tatupu (lol!) and then start picking WRs and interior OL.

    I'm absolutely fine at this point with our defensive backfield though a good CB wouldn't hurt either.
  15. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Maybe we should just link to Youtube videos of Tommy Hodson and Marc Wilson and Scott Zolak?

    I think a lot of younger fans watched what Matt Cassel did last year and they can easily envision a future without Brady. Maybe they started watching during the Bledsoe years as well, and they don't realize that Rex Grossman, Jason Campbell, Tavaris Jackson, Daunte Culpepper, Jamarcus Russell, Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, Jake Delhomme, Alex Smith, Trent Edwards, Tyler Thigpen, Byron Leftwich have been recent starters in this league.

    I'm sure Indy fans are looking forward to the Curtis Painter era.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  16. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Rebuilding? I thought this team might well be the most talented of any in the BB era prior to the start of play. Well, certainly prior to the Seymour trade. And they certainly looked like it for 3 quarters of that Indy game. Then they forgot how to play for some inexplicable reason!
  17. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Yep, you nailed it.
  18. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This was not a rebuilding year. 2010 and 2011 will be the rebuilding years. I think BB hated this team--lousy 3rd down defense, bad clubhouse (by all accounts), poor execution late in games, lack of physicality on both lines, no running game, no toughness from the tight ends or linebackers, etc., etc. I really think he's going to blow this team up. I expect more new faces on the 2010 team than any year since 2001. I think he probably saw signs of this last year, but figured getting Brady back might be enough to enable them to compete for the SB. He might have changed his opinion during training camp, resulting in the Syemour trade.
  19. edelmansarmy

    edelmansarmy Rookie

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    I wish. Say hello to 5-11 next year.
  20. klinefan

    klinefan Banned

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    Great post.

    "Blow this team up"! Please do.

    Wish he had more draft picks.

    3rd and 5th for Bur-garbage who is now a FA. And likely to retire.

    It's possible he trades the raiders #1 from next year into multiple 3rd and 4th rounders this year. That's what he should do.

    Provided of course, that he doesn't blow it on stupid picks. How's Chung looking? I had hopes for him as well as Brace. As well as the Patriots. Boy was I stupid.

    BB also has this philosophy of playing "veterans". Only problem is when said veterans have lost their desire and/or physical ability. A 3rd for Stuarks anyone? Anyone?
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