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Was Eli in the grasp?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATSNUTme, Feb 4, 2008.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I've seen the play rerun many times. And here is the rule from the NFL Digest of Rules.

    In my opinion (biased) he was clearly in the grasp. The play should have been whistled dead as a sack before he escaped and threw the ball which Tyree made the helmet catch. I won't get into the holding that took place during that play which was obvious.

    Protection of Passer

    1. By interpretation, a pass begins when the passer -- with possession of ball -- starts to bring his hand forward. If ball strikes ground after this action has begun, play is ruled an incomplete pass. If passer loses control of ball prior to his bringing his hand forward, play is ruled a fumble.
    2. When a passer is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement forward of his arm starts a forward pass. If a defensive player contacts the passer or the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player.
    3. No defensive player may run into a passer of a legal forward pass after the ball has left his hand (15 yards). The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.
    4. No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.
    5. Officials are to blow the play dead as soon as the quarterback is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler, and his safety is in jeopardy.
  2. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    honestly our D has let many QB's in their grasp and let them get away. boller in the ravens game comes to mind immediately.
  3. Theplayer

    Theplayer Banned

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    he was never clearly in the grasp and control
  4. pheenix11

    pheenix11 Rookie

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    Yeah they had his jersey but they never had him. Of course the fact that AD was held not once but twice on that play and the fact that Seymour was practically clotheslined made it pretty difficult to wrap him up. I'm all in favor of "letting them play" but there were 3 holds on that one play.
  5. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    Seymour was held the ENTIRE game...why would they start calling it then?
  6. roman_maroney

    roman_maroney Rookie

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    No, unfortunately he wasn't. Our team got punched in the mouth. That game couldn't have been called any better than it was. As a Pats fan for nearly 30 years, I don't know what I am more embarrassed by, the lack of intensity and focus by the organization and team this week, or the fans making excuses for it. I know I'm new to this forum, but it is astounding. The reason there are so many trolls is that we ourselves perpetuate the stereotype of the "Boston sports fan" with stuff like this.
  7. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rookie

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    The fact that there is no clear amount of time in the rule that a QB must be "grasped" in order for a whistle to blow suggests to me it's meant to be a judgment call of the officials. In my eyes, Eli wasn't in the grasp long enough (or securely enough) for me to believe they should have blown the whistle. Let the players play that late, those rules are intended to protect the QB, and something tells me Eli was fine with the refs not blowing it.

    Let me put it this way: If the outcome was reversed, the the play was blown dead as a sack, the Giants failed to convert on 4th, and they lost the game, the Giants would have a much more legitimate cause for complaint than the one we have now. If the shoe was on the other foot, we would be in an uproar if they play HAD been whistled dead, which to me is all the evidence I need that the refs got it right.

    Whether there was holding on the play is another matter.
  8. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    There were a couple BRUTAL holding calls on that play, but as I said in another thread, I'm not complaining about the refs on a nite when they were otherwise very strong. The Pats had their chance to get him, and they didn't. That's that. That's the difference between football immortality and a heartbreaker.
  9. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rookie

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    No one is making excuses for the Patriots' play. He asked a legitimate question with regards to the play. Calm down.
  10. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

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    In the Playoffs, the refs tend to (and should, IMO) let the players play. Eli was very close to 'in the grasp' but I think it was debatable. For a ref to throw a flag he has to know there was a penatly, not just assume one happened.

    I would love for it to have been called, but I feel the correct call was made =(
  11. bolts_fan

    bolts_fan Rookie

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    The refs made the right call on the "in the grasp"... and Eli's safety was never in question there. I've seen them (the refs) let plays go a lot longer than what I saw last night before blowing the whistle.

    As for the holding, there was holding by both teams at times and letting them play is usually the tradition in these big games. Unless it was blatant, like that hold by Giants defenders in the end zone that was called.
  12. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rookie

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    I agree with this. The rule is a question of safety, and protecting the quarterback from being slammed to the ground if he's already within the defender's control. That was clearly not the case on that play.
  13. newton_tom_cat

    newton_tom_cat Rookie

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    no he wasnt. and stop your obsession with blaming the officials for every pats loss. you're pathetic
  14. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rookie

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    No one did, not at all. I really think you're misreading the tone of the original post, I didn't get the sense that he was blaming the officials for the loss at all. Just asking the question, which several have answered in agreement with what you're saying. Absolutely no need to get nasty.
  15. Ernestine

    Ernestine Rookie

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    I don't care, they should have brought him down. It really was no excuses on the Pats part. That play basically lost them the game. This was one of the difference btw past teams. Eli goes down in 2004. In 2008, the d let them have extra life.
  16. Thurston Howell

    Thurston Howell Banned

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    After the Semi-Gift of the "Tuck Rule" a few years ago, it is amazing a Patriot fan would complain about anything Eli did. Besides, he wasn't in the grasp and if you want to blame someone, blame the Patriot Defensive players of doing a poor job of tackling.
  17. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Eli was lucky
  18. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    No?? I wonder if you were watching the same game...I suppose that when Toomer hits Hobbs in the face CLEARLY pushes him and then makes a catch that is NOT interference?? And did you NOT see a forearm to Brady on his hemet that was not called? And then there was the Woods recovery of a fumble?? Did he NOT have that in possession with his knees down touching?? I suppose those were called correctly? And that is just without reviewing the game....And NO that is not why the Patriots lost...but.. PLEASE don't make statements like that which are clearly TOTALLY untrue...YES..It could have been called better....Most games CAN..
    They did let them play a lot more..but that is one of the problems...there are some games that are totally physical when MANY MANY things not called in one game...would have been flagged in another. There was mention of Holding called on that one play..there was Holding all game..and I wish the Patriots had done what the Giants did with Eli...I think they were afraid to BE physical...as there were no Holding calls I remember on passing plays..That is very difficult for players.. Overall the officials were quite good..I just think they let a lot go... CoachB should have challenged the fumble call..that I think might have made a difference..but..I have 'friends'... that were saying it was fixed..and such..and while I do believe the NFL or elements in it can cause officials to do things in a team's favor...THAT was not the case last night.. (It was not like the Colts game of Week 10 or of the SB two years ago,,)
  19. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK, he was stopped and arms were flying around his head. That is why I cited the RULE. He did get loose but he was clearly in the grasp long enough for it to be called.

    I'm not blaming the refs for the loss. I'm pointing out a issue on that play that seems to have been ignored except for a couple of commentators on ESPN that I heard today(Golic being one). That's why I looked up the rule.
  20. texpat

    texpat Rookie

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    There are 2-5 bad or missed calls everygame, but to even think there was a fix in is ridiculous.

    If you think that, then you have just lumped yourself in with the whiny fans of the Seahags in Seattle.
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