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Warren Buffett.. "Stop Coddling the Rich".

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting op ed from Warren, who calls out the government to raise taxes on the very rich. When Bush started the class warfare with his tax cuts for these elite, the deficit increased significantly and has not stopped since.

    Read an article the other day that the most significant change in the real estate market are the sales of million dollar homes.. loosely translated means more federal tax deductions, by deducting interest and higher local taxes.

    Never has the need for a complete revamping of our federal tax code been more obvious.. there needs to be a flat rate, and stop all the BS with the deductions and all. If they cannot come up with that, then they need to tighten the loopholes that only benefit the uber rich.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=2

     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  2. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The question to ask is would Bill Gates have not developed Windows if he could have expected to pay 5% more in income taxes? Of course not, guys like him are driven. This is exactly why the great robber barons of the 19th century who built this country still did so even when they faced tax rates occasionally as high as 90% There's no doubt in my mind that there is such a thing as a stifling tax rate. IE a rate so high as to drive innovation away, we just ain't anywhere near it.
     
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The whole concept of "ego driven" cannot be minimized.. innovation will continue no matter what happens.
     
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Buffet is speaking about a loophole he and other fund managers get (like G Sosos), this is their income is derived in part from trading others people's money these earnings are taxes at the cap gains rate instead of the personal income rate.

    Of course if Buffett was really so grief stricken over this he could always pay the personal income tax rate.

    The Flat tax would of course be fat superior to the current system, however politicans love the power that comes with the ability to dole out favors to friends and punish enemies.
     
  5. PatsFanInVa

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    Yeah 13, Buffet -- co-author of the billionaire's pledge to give half of net worth to charity -- is just a self-serving son of *****.

    Of course if you're so broken up by the terrible moral dilemma of people talking about revenues going up because we are so terribly horribly in debt, you could refuse to take any deductions, and over-declare your income.

    PFnV
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is interesting to note that when something is posted about how inadequate our income tax system is, tht Soros enters the equation. The reality is that there are many beneficiaries on both sides of the aisle.

    Tax inequities do not know political affiliation, just the bottom line.

    For us commoners to expect the regulators (congrsss) to effect such a system is folly, the regulators do not want regulation or tax equity.

    Congress is comprised of 50% millionaires... at least 55 had a net worth of greater than 10 million.. The median wealth of a House member in 2009 stood at $765,010, while the median wealth for a senator in 2009 was nearly $2.38 million.

    Bottom line is that there is little hope for change, the status quo will prevail as it is in their best interest.. not ours, not the country's.

    Even if we reelect them all and have complete overhaul of congress, there will be no change due to the campaign election inadequacies..
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If he thinks he should pay the normal rate he could, he chooses not to. As to what he is doing with his money (mostly after his death) he is choosing not to have the government get it through the estate tax.

    Typical limo lib say one thing do another.


    Unlike Mr Buffet I am not calling for taxes to be raised.

    You ignore it , or more likely just don't understand.
     
  8. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    Unfortunately there isn't a single candidate that advocates what Buffett is recommending. I have been saying the same thing for a while now.
     
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    And there never will be unless someone starts a grassroots, state-based drive to ammend the Constitution to limit the money trading hands between campaign donors and candidates and, after the election, lobbyists and politicians. Politicians must see the campaign moey as some sort of compensation for the intense media coverage and invasion of privacy they and their entire family must now endure with the intense 24-7 media orgy that comes with running for public office. 450 days of Rick Perry and Obama will be more than most Americans can bear. I suppose that might explain the low approval ratings government gets- the dread of the nauseating rhetoric from all of the candidates, their media plants disguised as "strategists" and the fawning, slobbering (thanks for that, Harry) media whores. Well, that and the truly sucky job they're doing on the country.
     
  10. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    My wife and I were able to stomach about 10 minutes of campaign coverage this morning before we had to change the chanel. I don't think there is a single worthy candidate out there. That is very sad but understandable. Who in their right mind would want the job?
     
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    He's talking about 2 different things in that blurb. One is carried interest, the other is capital gains.

    Neither is what most people view as a "loophole" -- it's part of the tax structure.

    I didn't think capital gains did apply to short-term positions, but I'll trust Buffett on that.

    Carried interest is a more difficult question, and there are legitimate reasons to view it as ordinary income (their capital isn't actually at risk, for the most part) or as long-term gains (their returns most certainly are at risk, and the positions often are held for a true long-term period, many times for several years.

    A flat tax would, however, render both the carried interest question and long-term gain classifications moot, as you point out. But a flat tax will soon fall prey to the same issues that exist now, since, as you mention, politicians love power.


    Did he say he's grief stricken?

    saying he could pay more is a cop out.
     
  12. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Republicans generally want to cut the cap gains rate?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    What is he saying but not doing?

    Did he say that the wealthy shouldn't give their fortunes away to charity?
     
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    So true.

    Same with me and my wife. It's come down to a type of "sport viewing" where we have a game of going from FOX to MSNBC, back-and-forth, and we crack up on the way they say the opposite stuff about the most minute detail. Last week it was commentary about the Obama speech on the effect of the debt ceiling "debate" on the stock market. Tonight we'll tune in briefly to see how they treat (very differently, no doubt) the Iowa stuff. Our favorite comedy is the "political strategists" they both put up. I like FOX because they have the best eye candy- My wife likes FOX the best, too, because of what she calls "bimboxes". Same thing, I tell her.

    Later, we flip to MSNBC and watch the absurdity of the Ed Show union commercial. Later, if we're real bored, we'll do the flip between Hannity and Rachel. That's always good for a laugh.

    We can only do this for short bursts, though. 10-15 minutes tops.:)
     
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In an attempt to help Mr Buffett with his guilty conscience due to the low taxes pass this address along to him:

    Gifts to the United States
    U.S. Department of the Treasury
    Credit Accounting Branch
    3700 East-West Highway, Room 622D
    Hyattsville, MD 20782

    I am sure if he does his 'fair share' after all these years it would help his fellow Obama supporting super rich see the light. He can pas it along to B Gates for starters.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    He has a guilty conscience? or are you just making more stuff up?

    Like I said in my last post, it's a cop out from you.
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's the one claiming he pays too little in taxes. Matter of fact in the Yahoo story he claims to pay only 17.1 % (about 7mil paid to the Feds), so I would suggest he write a check for another $10,000,000, to being him up to where HE said he should be taxed. Simole, then he coudl say do that for the pat 28 years since Reagan marginal rates were put in place, say another $250,000,000, That isn't a big part for a guy worth over 50B IIRC.

    He won't do it because he is just doing this to help his Party. Obama is already using the OpEd in his speeches. He did the same riff back in 2004 when Kerry was running.

    Totally transparent.

    BTW I don't recall him speaking out against bailing out him and his Wall St buddies with TARP.
     
  18. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    so you're continuing to make stuff up

    got it
     
  19. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't know how you do it that long to be honest. I can't stomach political talk on any network for 1 minute, let alone 10-15. I brush up on stories on various news sites on the internet and here (yikes!). The only good close-to political show that I like (and LOVE) is Red Eye on Fox. It's on at 3am, so I just DVR it. But it's more about sitting around and laughing than politics really. The main host is conservative, and the other two regulars are libertarian and liberal. They have a plethora of different guests on from all political POVs. Like I said though, it's more about jokes and irreverent humor.

    Anyway, sorry to go off topic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  20. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think he's claiming telepathy in this case. The facts are just not known to you and I, as we do not have first-hand knowledge of Warren Buffet's state of mind, as does 13.

    By the way, Buffet's pledged to leave 99% of his fortune to charity. I believe the billionaire's pledge he and Gates started starts at 50%.

    As to the question of why Buffet doesn't just shut the hell up and very quietly give his money to the Treasury, it looks to me like he's trying to urge that we pass laws in order to sanely establish tax policy, not assuage a guilty conscience.

    By passing a law, you also affect others in the super-rich class, who may or may not accept their responsibility. He offers a first-hand account of how utterly skewed our tax structure is in regard to our refusal to tax the rich.

    Once again, this is not to assuage a guilty conscience, but to affect public policy, from the point of view of a real live "job creator."

    PFnV
     

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