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WARNING!!! *This Post is Critical of BB/Pioli*


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SOME THOUGHTS

1) The team has a fine job of improving the team if one assumes that our salary cap is about $10M less than it is. For whatever reason, the team has chosen to approach the cap in this manner. There have been major upgrades to the offense in the offseason, primarily through the draft, but not as much as we could have had we brought in three more free agents: at LB, WR and CB.

2) Pioli didn't fool around with a lot of veteran possibilties at WR. Caldwell was brought in replace Givens, and we drafted the best receiver in the draft. Finally, we brought Troy Brown for another year. To the degree we disagree with pioli, we are simply saying that Cadwell, Brown and Jackson are not good enough, and that a veteran should have been chosen instead. The #5 receiver is a developmental position, and we have several competing for the spot. This is not a spot for a veteran. The #6 position is a returner position.

3) You presume that we could have signed Willie if we wanted to, and that he wanted to play here. Crennel made him an offer he couldn't refuse, and he left. That's just part of the game. Willie will be more than adequately replaced by Vrabel, as Vrabel moves back outside, and we have sufficeint additional pass-rushers in Chad Brown, Banta-Cain and Green.

The issue (as it has been for 5 years) is the plan for developing inside linebackers to replace Ted Johnson and Phifer. You presume that Claridge was the answer. Why? Beisel is young, and has one year of learning in the system. Perhaps pioli and bb believe that Alexander is the answer. Perhaps they have more faith than you in Beisel and Gardner.
BRUSCHI-BEISEL
GARDNER-ALEXANDER
DAVIS
We'll be OK at the inside positions, as long as Bruschi is healthy.

4) I am more worried about corner than linebacker or wide receiver (presuming that Branch plays). At corner, we have fine depth and no starters. This is much worse than the problem of lack of depth at LB and WR.






kurtinelson said:
Looking at the current state of the Patriots roster, I can't help but second guess BB/Pioli on the current state of the team's LB and WR positions.

With respect to linebacker, in the offseason, Willie Mac and Matt Chatam were let go. I think we were all expecting that Claridge would in the fold for this year, but based on his being cut, one would assume that BB/Pioli knew that Claridge was a bust in planning for 06. That left us with a starting LB rotation of Vrabel, Bruschi, Biesel, and Colvin with TBC, Izzo, Don Davis et. al. as back ups. Little can be expected of the converted DE Mincey this season or the UDFAs Woods or Roach. Is it me or is this a recipe for disaster?

Regarding the WRs, I don't blame BB/Pioli for the Branch hold out, but I do blame them for not acquiring more experienced FA depth or drafting an additional WR this year. I have to admit, for all the criticism Branch's agent is getting, he is aware of how heavily the Pat's were relying on Branch this year. I believe that the acquisition of C. Jackson was a contingency for Branch's departure after the '06 season. Unfortunately, I don't think we can expect Jackson to fill Dieon's shoes this season.

The hallmark of the Patriot's SB winning teams has always been their depth. Is it just me or does it seem that the LB and WR depth of this year's team is foolishly thin?
 
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RI Pats Fan said:
No, your post is not even worth considering reading. BB/Pioli are perfect. That's it. End of story. Anybody who disagrees is a commie.

Finally, the voice of reason.
 
Let's see what the roster looks like in another month or so. I worry about those positions too but then I remember who is running the show so I relax with some more kool-aid.
 
PATSNUTme said:
panicbutton.gif


Click on that when you need to.

We haven't even played on pre-season game.

By the end of the preseason, the roster will be a little different than it is now. New people will be signed.

I'll be critical of them when I actually see something to be critical about during the regular season.

My advise is to relax and go to a Red Sox board if you need to be critical now. You'll blend in well there.

Instead of posting graphics, why not make a comment on the pool of talent we have to choose from at ILB, for instance?

Barring a last minute signing, this is it, Patsnut.

Are you trying to say that if I'm unhappy with the off season acquisitions I should find a place where people whine, complain and analyze Patriots moves 12 months a year.

Well I will!:mad:

Oh wait, I'm already here.:p
 
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Flying Fungi said:
well then it is you too...

but it sure isn't me...or any of my NFL enthusiast amigos...


Then we agree to disagree.

The proof will be in the (regular season) pudding.
 
mgteich said:
2) Pioli didn't fool around with a lot of veteran possibilties at WR. Caldwell was brought in replace Givens, and we drafted the best receiver in the draft. Finally, we brought Troy Brown for another year. To the degree we disagree with pioli, we are simply saying that Cadwell, Brown and Jackson are not good enough, and that a veteran should have been chosen instead. The #5 receiver is a developmental position, and we have several competing for the spot. This is not a spot for a veteran. The #6 position is a returner position.

I think Pioli/Belichick have done a mediocre job of evaluating the WR position. The biggest mistake had to be drafting Bethel Johnson in the 2nd round. Virtually no team had him rated that highly on their draft board and if you look carefully there was still plenty of very good WR's available (anquan boldin, brandon lloyd).
Bethel has great speed, but couldn't run routes to save his life. Donald Hayes and David Terrell were also physical specimens, but lacked the instincts to play in our system (or anyone's system).
It seems like BB/Pioli, who value football smarts and toughness, have overlooked these qualities when it comes to acquiring WR's.
I know we did well with Givens and Branch. But if we had drafted or signed one or two quality WR's since 2003, Branch would not have the leverage he has now. Also, the loss of Givens would not have hurt as much.
 
Ichiro said:
I think Pioli/Belichick have done a mediocre job of evaluating the WR position. The biggest mistake had to be drafting Bethel Johnson in the 2nd round. Virtually no team had him rated that highly on their draft board and if you look carefully there was still plenty of very good WR's available (anquan boldin, brandon lloyd).
Bethel has great speed, but couldn't run routes to save his life. Donald Hayes and David Terrell were also physical specimens, but lacked the instincts to play in our system (or anyone's system).
It seems like BB/Pioli, who value football smarts and toughness, have overlooked these qualities when it comes to acquiring WR's.
I know we did well with Givens and Branch. But if we had drafted or signed one or two quality WR's since 2003, Branch would not have the leverage he has now. Also, the loss of Givens would not have hurt as much.


Don't forget PK Sam, taken in the (admittedly low) 5th round of the, aside from the 1st round, disasterous 2004 draft.
 
mgteich said:
At corner, we have fine depth and no starters. This is much worse than the problem of lack of depth at LB and WR.

Give me a break. That would mean we won a Super Bowl (2004) with all depth and no starters. WR and LB is a MUCH bigger area of concern than CB, and it's not even close.
 
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With all the cap space, its clear that Bioli is waiting for someone to come loose from a team during the preseason (didn't the Dolts pick up an impact LB last year at this time?). This isn't the Red Sox, this team has a plan and will work out as always in the end.
 
Corners were indeed a weakness in 2004. Your argument would say that all our starters were great in 2004 since we won the Super Bowl.

JackBauer said:
Give me a break. That would mean we won a Super Bowl (2004) with all depth and no starters. WR and LB is a MUCH bigger area of concern than CB, and it's not even close.
 
I was fine with letting Givens go (overpayed), I was fine with letting McGinest go (overpayed and getting old), yet I was skeptical on letting Vinitari go. The depth issue is concering a lot of fans and believe that Pats have done nothing to address it. Right now Brady is thowing to guys who he doesn't even know them by name. I think they should make a trade with a ball club that needs to unload a reciever. The LB position is scary thin but when Bruschi comes back the Pats should be ok. Maybe the Pats are waiting to see who gets cut, then I'm sure they will be involved in some transactions. I hope they grap some guys before week 1.
 
Not concerned about the WR under two assumptions... Branch comes back within the next couple of weeks and Jackson gets and stays healthy. We may actually be pretty deep at wideout if these things happen.

LB has scared me all year, wait, no, since this time LAST year. This team has to do something big NOW to fix this problem or its gonna be a long season. Poor run D up the middle and a weak pass rush mean a very busy season for a less than stellar D backfield....
 
mgteich said:
Corners were indeed a weakness in 2004. Your argument would say that all our starters were great in 2004 since we won the Super Bowl.

No. I'm saying that:

a) Our CBs are better than in 2004
b) In 2004, we managed to win a Super Bowl despite being weak (your assertion, not mine) at one of the most important positions in football.

People sure like to bash the CBs on this team, and IMO it is largely unwarranted. However, I'm disputing your assertion that CB is of bigger concern than WR or LB.
 
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RayClay said:
Barring a last minute signing, this is it, Patsnut.
Why? Has the trading deadline changed as a result of new CBA? Not being a wise guy, just asking, as I figured that the $$$ could always be used on a trade for a player. 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick for a guy with a couple years left on this contract.
 
Rome wasn't built in a day.

When all the LBs were taken by round 1 pick 18, BB went after the shore-up needed at the skill positions on the Offense.

LB will have to wait until the 2007 draft.

He decided to muddle through. He expected to have to patch and look for a hidden gem in the low rounds of the draft and rookie FA. Thats what he did. enter Mincey Roach, Woods, Gardner and Brown.

Its not as though they don't have starters either, even if Beisel is just an average Joe and not a red chipper or better, like the other starters. Three stars in four positions is not bad at all for any contingent of players.

All you guys criticizing the money unspent, need to remember that its not ONLY Deon who is in his last contract season. Samuel, Graham, and Koppens are as well. That money can also be prepaid to Seymour, who they DID re-sign.

They haven't signed any of the other four yet, but if they had no cap room they couldn't even try to resign them. I suspect they wanted to see Koppens and Graham after returning from surgery before committing money. But you have to budget it and have it available to spend for all of them, and they did, and do.

Its awesome to see the Patriot Front Office display dexterity and adopt alternate courses of action. It certainly isn't done on the fly so flawlessly, it has to be pre-planned alternate courses of actions.
 
spacecrime said:
Why? Has the trading deadline changed as a result of new CBA? Not being a wise guy, just asking, as I figured that the $$$ could always be used on a trade for a player. 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick for a guy with a couple years left on this contract.

Well, they only play 16 games and they do have to learn an unusual defense.

Since TC is over and exhibition games have started I'm calling it relatively late in the off season.

BTW, since I predicted they would pick up a LB late, I'm not upset, especially if they get great value for the talent.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=37933&highlight=agent
 
pats1 said:
Is it just me or did Michael Felger try to make the same point in a heavily-scrutinized article last week?

Possibly, because it is a legitmate concern.
 
PATSNUTme said:
panicbutton.gif


Click on that when you need to.


By the end of the preseason, the roster will be a little different than it is now. New people will be signed.


Thanks for the advise.

With the new CBA and higher cap, who do you think is going to be available to sign with the Pats?

panicbutton.gif
 
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