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War in Iraq lost. Only question is how bad will the coming explosion be??

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Mar 11, 2007.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am confident that the Rolling Stone is biased, with that being said, they convened a panel of "experts" to discuss Iraq, from best case scenario, most likely and worst. Interesting read if nothing else.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13710030/leaving_iraq_the_grim_truth/print

    The war in Iraq isn't over yet, but -- surge or no surge -- the United States has already lost. That's the grim consensus of a panel of experts assembled by Rolling Stone to assess the future of Iraq. "Even if we had a million men to go in, it's too late now," says retired four-star Gen. Tony McPeak, who served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Gulf War. "Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again."

    Those on the panel -- including diplomats, counterterror analysts and a former top military commander -- agree that President Bush's attempt to secure Baghdad will only succeed in dragging out the conflict, creating something far beyond any Vietnam-style "quagmire." The surge won't bring an end to the sectarian cleansing that has ravaged Iraq, as the newly empowered Shiite majority seeks to settle scores built up during centuries of oppressive rule by the Sunni minority. It will do nothing to defuse the powder keg that an independence-minded Kurdistan, in Iraq's northern provinces, poses to the governments of Turkey, Syria and Iran, which have long brutalized their own Kurdish separatists. And it will only worsen the global war on terror.

    "Our invasion and occupation has created a cauldron that will continue to draw in the players in the Middle East for the foreseeable future," says Michael Scheuer, who led the CIA's hunt for Osama bin Laden. "By taking out Saddam, we have allowed the jihad to move 1,000 kilometers west, where it can project its power, its organizers, its theology into Turkey -- and from Turkey into Europe."

    How bad will things get in Iraq -- and what price will the world ultimately pay for the president's decision to prolong the war? To answer those questions, we asked our panel to sketch out three distinct scenarios for Iraq: the best we can hope for, the most likely outcome and the worst that could happen.
     
  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Rolling Stone? Hm-m-m, Rolling Stone magazine. I wonder where they stand on democracy, family values, creating world peace for *EVERYONE* (not just the elite purchasers of their magazine) ????

    If the U.S. does not stand up to terror now, we will not stand up to terror in the future. Trying to stop it tomorrow will be too late. The young potential Islamicist terrorists of the future are watching what happens to their leaders. If their leaders are captured or killed they will seek another path, different from terrorism.


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  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So I guess you did not read the article, just made assumptions based on the magazine.. my post was qualified by there is confidence that it is biased, nevertheless and interesting read and a point of view.
     
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    What are you doing for T.W. O.T.? How many of your children are in the military fighting "terror".
     
  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Well, I've held seven conferences on Peace here in my country. Four different current members of parliament, four former members, plus various Ministries represented, in addition to dozens of academics, members of national media, social workers, and five different religions.

    We took part in what's called the "Middle East Peace Initiative" (MEPI), with joint visits to both Jewish Israel and Muslim Palestine.

    http://www.iipc.org.il/conferences/meinitiative.html

    We're also engaged in activities inside China and North Korea. I think we were instrumental in the recent move by the Bush administration to recognize and hold dialogue directly with the North Korean government, a first for *any* U.S. administration since the Korean War began in 1950. That's a long time.

    http://www.peacefederation.org/

    As for my son, he is now only 14, but he is ready to serve if called.


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  6. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    A peacenik that strongly supports illegal wars. How cute.
     
  7. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    We not only have to stand up to terrorism, but all forms of warfare. I believe the next quarter century will see the United States standing up to such invisible forces as "Kung-Fu" and fighting "snipers".....a war on terrorism is UNENDING!

    are we really this stupid?
     
  8. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Um..hellooo?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    If you had loved ones in the Twin Towers when they went down, you'd feel differently. Even if you didn't, and simply cared about improving the hopes and dreams of those in the middle east and everywhere that dictatorships rule, you would understand why we are in Iraq.

    We cut and ran from Southeast Asia. It is not going to happen again.


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  10. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Work for peace, be prepared for a fight: it might be cute, but I know it works.



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  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Once again this erroneous link is made.. you do not know personally how 9-11 effected any of us. A very good friend of my son's was emoliated, so you really do not know and to just assume you do blows big holes in anything you say. We are all effected in different ways..

    Lets do some history here now, we did not cut and run from SE Asia, the problem with Viet Nam (this is why I compare it to Iraq) is that is was essentially run by the Pols in DC who did not have boots on the ground and did not understand all of the dynamics.. this coupled with minimal support and civil unrest from most of the populus caused the leadership to reconsider. To just say we cut and run is erroneous didn't we loose something 55K trooops there.

    Fast forward to Somalia, we did a terrible job there bad intelligence, completely unprepared and we did not know the capabilities of the Somalian people. Do you know what Bob Dole and companys' response was after Blackhawk down was? They wanted immediate withdrawal from Somalia, Clinton held them off and they left 6 months later. IMO this event was critical in the WOT, as to many people who do not have benefit of the knowledge that some of us have viewed us as weak and beatable. We looked like a country who was not willing to sacrifice the blood of our men for a cause and OBL used this as a rallying cry.

    Bottom line is war should be fought by warriors, whenever we get involved in war the WH and Congress should provide oversight and funding.. it seems that in the past 40 years we keep making the same mistake over and over again, allowing the war to be fought in DC and not on enemy soil. As much as all want it to be, war is not PC and unfortunately it is viewed that way in DC.. war is what it is, that is why it cannot be taken lightly or viewed as a stand alone event with timetables.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2007
  12. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    I agree with some of what you say but your assessment of my post ignores the second half: even if we did not personally lose someone on 9/11, we should at least care how the people of Iraq (and the rest of the world) are faring in their daily lives.

    Second point is that wars are ALWAYS fought by the CIC, the White House. What was politically wrong in the Vietnam war was the fear our WH has for what the Soviets would do if we really hit North Vietnam at Hanoi and Haiphong.


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  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :singing: :singing: Try putting Obama in this picture and see the reaction you get.
     

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