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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Deus Irae, Mar 2, 2011.

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  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. part-timer

    part-timer On the Game Day Roster

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    How unbelievably out of touch with reality some of these profesional sports writers can be. For months now these boards have been lit up with discussions of the necessity of interior linemen for the pats in this draft. This moch has not a single interior lineman in the first 5 rounds. One writer rates the Pats OL high this year and their must not be any need....right. Light no contract and 32, Mankins no contract and upset held out 1/2 last year, Neal played only 50 % of his whole career (true check it out) and now retired, Kaczur 3.5 million back up comeing off back surgery at 32 about to be cut, Koppen at 31 an need of an upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  3. Dufflebagz

    Dufflebagz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I like parts of this Mock....Solder, Wilkerson, and Moch specifically.

    But you're right....we NEED a guard. If you replace LeShoure with Wisniewski this Mock looks decent.

    The changes I would make according to this mock....

    1a. Solder OT
    1b. Wilkerson DE
    2a. Wisniewski G/C
    2b. Danny Watkins G
    3a. Kendall hunter RB (My binky :D)
    3b. Moch OLB
    4. Toliver WR
    5. Not sure at this point, but not Beal.
     
  4. jays52

    jays52 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #91 Jersey

    He lost me when he reffered to a Pats DE as a "five technique". Pretty hard to two-gap from an outside shade. Damn you, Mayock, damn you for polluting the uneducated.

    I also love the three year old level thought string of "The Pats won't take him
    because his agent in Tom Condon." that seems to not only permeate this board but most so called experts as well.

    Wilkerson strikes me as an epic meh, and his inability to drop his hips concern me terribly. The PSU center strikes me as a more in-live player with less explosion than history likes. Leshore strikes me as a low rent Maroney. He's a zone back without the explosion off of the cut to play it at the professional level. He very well be smarter than Maroney (hell, my niece's teddy bear is smarter than Maroney), but physically he grades out to a mid third and doesn't fit the need for the homerun tailback. Bad draft, almost tragic in my mind.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  5. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    OK, nobody else is asking, but being the resident Guy Who Doesn't Give a Rat's @$$ Who Thinks I'm a Dumb @$$ For Asking: What's the story with 5 Techs and your "4 Tech" talk?? Being as you're the only lunatic in the GALAXY that I've ever read using the term, I'm inclined to assume that it's absolutely correct, and that this "5 Tech" term that every one else uses is WRONG...But I WOULD like an education as to WHY. :D
     
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Walter doesn't really "get" the Patriots, but I will say that (A) he did give them a guard in round 6, and (B) noted that he got caught unawares w.r.t. Neal's retirement, and that his next mock WILL have the Pats taking a guard significantly earlier.
     
  7. jays52

    jays52 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Hahaha my man! The d-line "techniques" are very simple. They designate alignment. Odd means outside shoulder, even means heads up. In a 34 with no shifts on the nose plays the 0-technique aligned head-up on the center. Put him on the outside shoulder of the center and he becomes the 1-technique. Two gapping 43's play their DT's head-up on the guard in the 2-technique. The 43 playmaking tackles play the 3-technique. If they're really fast, some will play The Warren Sapp Alignment and play the 4i. The 4i denotes an inside alignment on the tackle, this is a strictly penetration alignment designed to put a player in the backfield immediately. In a two-gap 34 the DE plays head up on the tackle, which in football vernacular is known as the 4-technique. In order to maintain the integrity of two gaps, the player must be aligned head-up. If he plays to the outside he is relinquishing his inside shoulder and is easily hooked. In 1-gap 34's (I think Mayock got this from the LeBeau system), the ends have outside responsibility and accordingly are aligned on the outside shoulder of the tackle in the 5-technique. It not only enables better upfield rush, but enables the end to better seal the edge while the OLB's crash. This not only explains upfield TFL stats for OLB's but explains the demand for OLB's who can "set the edge" in the NE scheme.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  8. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Definitely a significant improvement, but of course we know that the Trade Monster will devour this mock for breakfast. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  9. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Nicely explained.
     
  10. serifyn

    serifyn Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    You can only Mock Draft Based on performance in college and some small glimpse of the player in the combine, but it is obvious that the patriots care alot about the character of a particular guy, and it is unlikely that walter or anyone else is in a position to interview these players and see what they are all about.

    a couple of weeks ago everyone wanted to draft nick Fairley and he was even being mocked #1 overall, well after a couple interviews, people really started to think this guy was a jackass, so after months of being at the top of Walterfootball.com's mock draft, he has dropped all the way down to #8, and what has changed aside from the interview information that has been leaked?

    The Patriots want character guys who are leaders not only on the field but in the locker room, they have to love playing football and have to have a hunger to win, they need to be able to be flexible and work with the team, understanding that the team is more important than the individual.

    The patriots wont draft or sign anyone who wont obey the Belichick code of conduct, and players like Fairley who may be great individually wouldn't ever be drafted by the patriots.

    This Mock and every other will be blown up by the patriots on draft day, the patriots have a habit of turning guys you've never thought of or discussed as a possibility being their main target, how many people thought belichick was crazy when he drafted ANOTHER CORNERBACK in the first round? i know i did.
     
  11. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    I don't see the pats draft carmicheal in the 3rd while kirkpatrick,pinkston,boling, and moffit are still on the board......all of these guys are way too capable of helping the pats to pass on getting one of them at that point.

    moch is a one trick pony.......and even there, he's a speed only guy with few moves....I'd take a shot on an RB like delone carter there, skip on Leshoure and get martez wilson and put him outside which is where he will wind up in the NFL
     
  12. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    BEAUTIFULL explanation!! Thank Ye KINDLY, Brother Jay. :D
     
  13. Defsoul

    Defsoul On the Game Day Roster

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    So Walter has the Patriots taking an offensive tackle at #17. I don't really see the value because I have a heard time seeing any of these highly rated tackles beating out Vollmer for the left tackle spot. Thus the Patriots would be drafting a right rackle with their first pick. I don't really like it.
     
  14. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    there's nothing wrong with putting a carimi, solder, or castonzo on the right side early on.......then they don't have to worry about protecting the blind side.......in fact, while it is not the best value, I would not have a problem using 2 of the top 3 picks on guys who would start out on the right side (one of the above plus pouncey)....at a minimum, these guys would make the running game much more viable immediately and force much more recognition by opposing defenses....which in turn would make the overloading of the line by defense a waste of time
     
  15. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    O.K. I would not want some of these, but these Drafts are all "fun opinions". Someone made sense to me when they said drafting an OT in the first for us means a RT. He was correct. Kudos to that poster. Never thought about that and young Mr, Volmer. I think they resign Light for a couple. If Kerrigan, Watt or Jordan are on the board at #17 this would seem a done pick but then BB could choose a QB and most would buy the Koolaid. Remember, other than last year, our swapping and all that crap have led to Drafts that have been mediocre at best. One or two wins and more wiffs. But if you look at 17% as the NFL average he has not been too far off most years.

    The caveat on Watt is Tom Condon. I like Aldon Smith as well but that is a problem with him too. Do I think BB can be vengeful?......You answer that. You would think these kids do their homework and see how an agent can mean one less Team wants to employ you. They will get Drafted by the next Team that needs their services but what if it five or eight or twelve picks later. It's called losing money.

    It tickles me to see how BB has not become "The Drafter Almighty" after one, and I admit very good year in the Draft. The jury is still out as far as I am concerned in the Pats Draft room so lets hope this year can be a repeat of last with success.

    I see the only pass rusher that will have an immediate impact over the others in my book is Miller. We won't get to him. Stroud could be camp fodder but why the panic to sign him unless he is penciled in to be a definite contributor in 2011. Now DE would seem a little less of a priority but who knows.

    Round 1:
    I go Kerrigan

    then Cameron Jordan over Wilkerson.

    Round 2:
    Wisnewski played at where? Penn State. How great have their Drafted players been in the NFL lately? BB Drafts Ohrnberger and he is purely a JAG. Name three current Penn State NFL starting stars? You grab G Danny Watkins early in the second. He starts.

    Now a Playmaker. WR Randall Cobb might wind up being productive in all phases of the game. Picture this........A bigger, younger Troy Brown.

    Round 3:

    We can see a need for a RB. My pick is RB DeMarco Murray. 213lbs and a 4.41 40. He caught 71 passes so he is a three down back and because of injuries he is not rated higher. Can get our system as he was All Academic Big 12. He is the game breaker.

    My second pick in Round 3 is DE/OLB Greg Romeus. Would have been a first rounder this year but injuries stymied him. Now medically cleared. 6'5" AND 268LBS. 4.79 speed. 2009 Big East Co-Defensive Player of the Year and Unanimous First Team All-Big East … Ted Hendricks Defensive End of the Year Award finalist … named to three All-America teams at season's end, including CollegeFootballNews.com (second team), Sporting News (third team) and Rivals (third team) … had 43 tackles, 11.5 TFLs and eight sacks … also had an INT, a fumble recovery, three forced fumbles and a blocked PAT. Can be the steal of the Draft and our elephant OLB.

    Both 3rd round picks should be ready to go. Tate was chosen in the third without hesitation with similar circumstance.

    Round 4:

    I want a replacement for Koppen in the wings but who can play Guard for now. I want a tough guy. I take G Jon Moffitt from Wisconsin. Much bigger than Koppen and played on a great O-Line.

    I think we get a COMP for Ben Watson-Our Safeties are iffy at best. Merriweather still has metal lapses. Sanders is part of a group that was 30th in passing yards against. Chung is the best of the lot but is still young. I like S Shiloh Keo here. 6' and 216lbs and quick enough feet to return punts. Can flip his hips. Will tackle and a solid ST guy. A BB sort of fellow. Tough kid. NFL Network crew sees him as a solid pick up.

    Round 5:

    Now a OT here. I see is T James Carpenter. All SEC at Bama. It seems like Light will be here in 2011 anyway. Gives this kid time. Saban will advise BB on him.

    Round 6:

    I gamble on big CB Richard Sherman from Stanford. 6'3" and 197lbs. Played against top competition. 4.57 40. Moving up the boards. A real anti-smurf CB. Played WR for a few years. Still raw but can anticipate WR moves. Also can play WR in a pinch yet again. 37 Receptions in 2007 and led the Team in yards. Also returns punts. Should grasp our system being from Stanford.
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  16. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If they get a comp for Watson, it sure as heck won't be a fourth-rounder; his contract was nowhere near large enough for that.

    In fact, because the only qualifying FA they lost was Watson, and Crumpler counts as a FA signed, the best they can hope for is a late comp 7.
     
  17. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Watson's contract was over 4 million/year. Watson also put up excellent numbers..

    The Pats also lost Jarvis Green. I am not sure how that figures in since Green was cut prior to the start of the season, but after TC.

    Crumpler's contract averaged out to be about 1.9 million.

    That being said, you may be right that they only get a 7th round comp. But the only way to know for certain is when it's announced prior to the draft.
     
  18. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    (A) I was a bit off, but, Watson's contract alone would be at best one of the last 5th-round comps last year, so it won't be a 4th this year.

    (B) According to AdamJT13, the guy who predicts these things, no team has ever received a comp pick above the 7th round in a season in which they signed as many qualifying FAs as they lost (Jarvis Green doesn't count b/c he was waived by the Donkeys).
     
  19. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Great post, appreciate the really nice explanation.

    In Mayock's defense, when he talks about 34 teams, he is talking generally across the league, and as you say, some of those 34 teams (like Pittsburgh) are looking for a 5-tech. Either way, we generally know what kind of player he's talking about when he is talking about his favorite 5-techs, and they - more often than not - still have the right size/strengths for the Pats. As opposed to a 3-tech where we know he's probably talking about a shorter, squatter, penetrating D-Lineman. Heck, making this distinction alone puts him ahead of a lot draft pundits :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  20. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #24 Jersey

    cliffs
    -5tech is synonymous around the NFL with 3-4 End
    -nobody is making an exception for the Pats
     
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