Vrabel with/without Colvin

[BelichickFan]

I have noticed that Vrabel has been very quiet (on the pass rush) since Rosey went out. I looked it up and the numbers back it up.

He had 9.5 sacks in 11 games that Colvin played in.
He had 3 sacks (all against Miami) in the 8 games that Colvin didn't play in.

Not trying to slam Vrabel in any way but for those who watch the games several times and are smarter than me, did Vrabel rush less or was he handled easier without Colvin on the other side ?

Our pass rush BLEW after Colvin went out. $7M cap hit or not, we desperately need him back next year. Of course I'd prefer a cap friendly extension.

 

[Patdown93]

Yeah, we do need him back. He brings some speed to our pass rush.

 

[JoePats]

Big picture I think you are correct, but to me it comes down to wrapping Eli up on the one play, and everything is viewed entirely different. I thought yesterday for the most part the pass rush was good, and it was really good on the last drive up until the escape.

 

[aluminum seats]

That's really a striking difference--watching the games you could feel his absence, but I wouldn't have guessed the numbers would be that extreme. That's one of the things that got me about people talking about the Colts injuries--as though losing a starter from our most vulnerable unit wasn't an enormous blow.

Hopefully the entire LB crew comes back, with Bruschi and Seau in more limited roles, supplemented by a FA and the first round pick.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Did Vrabel even play last night ????????????????????

 

[CTPatsFan]

Without Rosey the opposition can focus on Vrabes more. We all love Bruschi and Seau has come up big, but they are much more effective in supplemental roles as opposed to primary ones.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I have noticed that Vrabel has been very quiet (on the pass rush) since Rosey went out. I looked it up and the numbers back it up.

He had 9.5 sacks in 11 games that Colvin played in.
He had 3 sacks (all against Miami) in the 8 games that Colvin didn't play in.

Not trying to slam Vrabel in any way but for those who watch the games several times and are smarter than me, did Vrabel rush less or was he handled easier without Colvin on the other side ?

Our pass rush BLEW after Colvin went out. $7M cap hit or not, we desperately need him back next year. Of course I'd prefer a cap friendly extension.

I'd be far more willing to spend that amount of cap space on Terrell Suggs who is basically Colvin except he's 4 or 5 years younger. You're right though, we were far less effective after Colvin went out, but we could attribute that to the fact that injury put Thomas outside. When Thomas went outside the opposition could almost ignore the possibility of anyone in the ILB spot blitzing. Therefore they could spend more time worrying about the OLBs.

 

[Seymour93]

Without Rosey the opposition can focus on Vrabes more. We all love Bruschi and Seau has come up big, but they are much more effective in supplemental roles as opposed to primary ones.

Exactly. Before Colvin went on IR, we had a nice rotation going. But afterwards, Bruschi and Seau each had to play basically 95% of the snaps. Also I noticed last night that AD lined up as a DE a lot, especially on the last few drives (he was our best pass rusher IMO) . I'm hoping we draft a DE/OLB or even an ILB at #7, but I have my doubts.

 

[Rob0729]

The thing is other than last night and one other game, Adalius Thomas has been not been all that effective at OLB either. We are still best with Vrabel and Colvin outside and Thomas in the middle with Bruschi and Seau rotating.

Also, Vrabel still is disruptive in the backfield even if he isn't registering sacks. He was a HHHHHHUUUUUUUGGGGGEEEEEEE reason the Pats shut down Roethlisberger and the Pittsburgh offense. Roethlisberger loves to scramble right and eventhough Vrabel was being blantantly held on almost every play and didn't register a sack, he forced Roethlisberger in the pocket for others to make plays and Roethlisberger to make mistakes.

 

[BelichickFan]

Also, Vrabel still is disruptive in the backfield even if he isn't registering sacks. He was a HHHHHHUUUUUUUGGGGGEEEEEEE reason the Pats shut down Roethlisberger and the Pittsburgh offense. Roethlisberger loves to scramble right and eventhough Vrabel was being blantantly held on almost every play and didn't register a sack, he forced Roethlisberger in the pocket for others to make plays and Roethlisberger to make mistakes.

Like I said, this wasn't an anti Vrabel thing, more like a reminder how important Colvin is. Vrabel was great with Rosey then with no Rosie there's only one game when Vrabel gets a sack. And I'm not a fan of coincidences.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Is it just me or do QBs scramble really well on us? It wasnt just the desperation heave- Manning also almost hit Burress for a TD the drive before on a scramble, and it's been happening all year. It seems like Adalius is the only guy in the front 7 with the closing speed to chase down even average-speed QBs.

 

[Seneschal2]

Not trying to slam Vrabel in any way but for those who watch the games several times and are smarter than me, did Vrabel rush less or was he handled easier without Colvin on the other side?

I'll give you the lengthy answer.

Years ago, in a BB transcript, he talked about the role of the OLBs in his 3-4 D. How their play along the perimeter vs the run, and as edge rushers vs the pass, were valuable to the entire D -- and more specifically -- to the secondary.

How often have we talked about average QBs lighting up our defense, converting third downs, etc...when all this could be avoided with consistent pressure from the edges. What some fans fail to realize is, some of these avg/good QBs can throw the ball through tires if given the time. But put some heat on them -- and they're prone to error.

Now, to give you a more direct answer, wasn't able to find the old transcript -- but this one addresses the value of having two OLBs (two wings), vs having the one wing in Vrabel:

Bill Belichick Press Conference - 1/16/2008

Q: You’ve seen a lot of great linebackers over the years and you’ve coached a lot of them. How much do [Shaun] Philips and [Shawne] Merriman help each other, playing together?

BB: I think it helps when you have two perimeter players, whatever they play, whether it’s outside linebackers, corners, receivers, to a certain extent tight ends where you can balance off the formation and not be heavily tilted one way or the other. Going back to the Giants days when you had a situation there, Lawrence Taylor, it was easy to run away from him until he had Carl Banks, and then it wasn’t so easy to run away from Taylor and into Banks or away from Banks and into Taylor. So again, it’s kind of the same thing. Whether it’s two corners or two linebackers or two receivers - If you only have one, then sometimes it’s possible for the other team to scheme and work away from that guy or double him or however you want to look at it, whatever the position is. Verses if you have two, you’re going away from one, but you’re going into the other. I think it does help.

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Hope this helps...

 

[hobbsownscoles]

Basically Hope they draft Gholston