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Vonta Leach...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by captain stone, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    ...is available. If Bill, Skippy & Brady are truly serious about restoring run-pass balance, esp on 3rd downs,
    then they need to sign the beast immediately.
    Otherwise, all their talk is nothing more than that - talk, BS in particular, and yet another season will end
    in exactly the same way as the last 8 seasons have ended: not with a bang, but with a whimper.
  2. MAYOnnaise

    MAYOnnaise Rookie

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    Vonta Leach the difference between winning a Super Bowl or not? Hahahaha Stop trolling
  3. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    If we had Brandon Lloyd as opposed to Ocho we would have had a much better shot at winning the recent SB against the Giants.
  4. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

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    While I am interested in Leach and would not mind seeing him in a Pats uniform, you saying their talk of more balance would prove to be BS if we dont sign him is ridiculous because it automatically assumes he is interested in coming here. And while he is certainly worth more than the veteran minimum, no, I dont think we should get in a bidding war for a FB, if it came to that.

    And before this past season, Leach was part of just 1 playoff win. He's a guarantee for a Super Bowl win?
  5. s3antana5757

    s3antana5757 Rookie

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    Came here to post about Leach. Was the lead blocker for Slaton, then Foster, then Rice. Great lead blocker and definitely worth it. Now he's not the difference between winning a SB and not, we've proven we can run the ball without him, but I would love to add him. He's truly a stud and by far the best FB in football. He's going to get some money from the Ravens, so come here cheaply.
  6. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    Problem is, most every snap he played you'd be taking a TE off the field.

    When healthy, our TEs are our best weapons.
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What talk?
  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thats not what you said. You said the Patriots have no chance to win a SB without Vontae Leach
  9. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But but but... we have Tebow.... :p
  10. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    I said no such thing, don't put words in my mouth.
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My bad, thought you were the OP.
  12. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    No worries.
  13. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    I would love to see them bring Leach in, it would be great to see them be able to put a game away the way they used to when they had Dillon, by simply ramming it down the other teams throat, and Leach would absolutely help in that regard. I know just the roster spot they can use to sign the fullback.
  14. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Rookie

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    Regardless of the hysterics in the OP, I'd love to see us add an elite fullback. I understand that you are taking a receiving option off the field. But at the same time, the relationship between the run and pass is symbiotic. Running the ball better can open things up for play action. (which Brady has always been masterful at) Furthermore, having the ability to run the ball with authority will help when teams are playing out of the nickel and daring us to run, like the Ravens did in the AFCCG. Basically, the more teams have to worry about the run, the more effective our offense will be.

    That said I don't think we'd carry a FB unless they have ST value. Does Leach play in the kicking game?
  15. kennyb

    kennyb Rookie

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    Be funny if they cut Tebow and signed him. Business is business!
  16. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Rookie

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    I'd love to see that. Cut a fullback who plays quarterback and sign a fullback who plays fullback.
  17. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    My initial reaction was flat out dismissal, then i thought about and maybe... and now I'm back to dismissal.

    The FB position is outdated and a waste of a roster spot. Furthermore, he wants way more money than any FB is worth.
  18. Froob

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    Who thought Jacoby Jones was the difference between a 2nd round exit and SB champs? You just never know.
  19. s3antana5757

    s3antana5757 Rookie

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    We've used FBs before(think Heath Evans). We know that Bill wants to utilize the ground game more, and Leach opens up massive holes. You can still throw out of those formations with our TEs and WRs. I think it'd be solid addition.
  20. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Can we run the ball when we need to, when the other team knows we're going to run it? If not there's an issue, I think Leach would help us in that department.
  21. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    Or taking one of our lousy WRs off the field.
    1 WR + 2 TE = 1 RB + 1 FB still = 3 receivers, 4 if the RB is Vereen. Plenty of opportunities
    for both run & pass, especially from play-action.
  22. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You want to put TOM BRADY on the field with only 3 capable recievers, 2 of which are TEs?
    Sounds more like you are trying to prepare the Tebow offense.
  23. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Use of the fullback position really is dying, and the elite ones are pretty poor value because of that. Last season, Leach had a $4.3M cap number to play 42% of their offensive snaps. He had the same cap number this coming season. That's really poor value, and it's why he ended up getting cut.

    For comparison, Marcel Reece played the highest percentage of all FBs with 61%, and he's a converted college wide receiver who has a lot of value as a receiver and was also a primary ball-carrier for four games. The only other fullback above 50% was James Casey, who is now listed as a TE with the Eagles. The top fullbacks in playing time aren't blockers, they're receivers.

    So let's say the Patriots could sign Leach for $3M a year. That's quite a bit less than what he was making with the Ravens, but more than the $2.5M per year the Vikings just gave Jerome Felton (who played only 38% of the snaps last season). What percentage of the offensive snaps do you expect a guy to play for $3M a season? For that kind of money, I'd at least expect him to at least be around the 60% snap mark (which would put him in contention for the NFL FB snap lead), and I wouldn't be able to rationalize having a one-dimensional run-blocker on the field even half that often.

    Belichick has the right idea when it comes to the fullback position. If you're a passing or even balanced team, you don't need a real fullback. If you're going to have a fullback anyway, then he needs to be a primary ST player. He'll get about as much use on STs as he does on offense. He also needs to come cheap, about a million or under. And if you don't want a real fullback, then tight ends, linebackers, and offensive linemen work too. And no matter which player you pick, you're not paying a guy $3M to sit on the bench for 2/3 of your snaps.

    [Now Marcel Reece, unlike any other fullback, I'd take for $3M a year in an instant. He's probably the closest player in the NFL to having Hernandez's movement skills and oversized receiver body, but with more ability to play as a running back (both halfback and fullback) than Hernandez. The Patriots would do amazing things with him.]


    tl;dr: Highly paid fullbacks are crappy value.
  24. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    I don't think anyone is advocating paying a FB $3 million but it'd be very nice to have a good one to beef up the running game, I don't think the O-linemen we've been using have worked out that great at FB.

    That said, I definitely like what Reece brings to the table.
  25. Bravo777

    Bravo777 Rookie

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    I don't think we need him right now. I'm sure we've got enough 3rd down weapons.
  26. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    Isn't that what he did last season?
  27. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No. We ran 2 and 3 WR offenses last year not 1 WR offenses.
    Our #2 WR was 3rd among all #2s in receiving yards and 25th among all WRs including 1s, so I have no clue what you are trying to say here.
  28. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For short yardage and for some redzone formations, I would like to have a true FB in the backfield.

  29. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Can adding a FB help us run when we need to run?
  30. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do we not run 3 TE formations in short yardage situations?


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