Vollmer vs. Light

[mayoclinic]

Matt Light started at OT the first 5 games of the season. During that time the Pats were 3-2, and averaged just under 21 PPG.

Sebastian Vollmer started at OT the next 5 games, while Light was out injured. During that time the Pats went 4-1 (and should have gone 5-0 except for a 4th quarter collapse against Indy) and averaged almost 38 PPG. Vollmer shut down Dwight Freeney and Joey Porter, among others.

Since Vollmer has missed the past two games we are 0-2. The offense has averaged under 20 PPG for those 2 games. The Oline has allowed Brady to be pressured consistently, including by a 3 man rush from the Saints.

Coincidence?

I'm not dissing Light, who is a good player. And he's probably not back 100%. And the offensive line woes have been much more than the LT spot. But we seemed like a different offense when Vollmer was anchoring the left side, enough so to make me wonder if the difference in play and stats is more than just a coincidence.

3-4 in 7 games started by Light, averaging 20 PPG. 4-1 in 5 games started by Vollmer, averaging 38 PPG.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes, it is a coincidence. Absolutely. Even if Vollmer is the next Orlando Pace, do you really think a LT is the difference in those losses especially the last two weeks. The defense played key roles in those losses.

Besides, you gotta look at the situations. Both Porter and Taylor were invisible yesterday. It was the interior of the line that had problems yesterday with Randy Starks in his face all game.


With all the other problems with this team, I don't see the Pats being anything other than 7-5 no matter who was the LT. I know you love Vollmer, but to say that he was the missing piece to avoid the losses the Pats have is ignoring a lot of problems with this team.

 

[xmarkd400x]

Well,

I'll say that I can watch teams get pressure with 3 and 4 all day against the Pats. And it usually happens on the right side.

 

[mayoclinic]

Yes, it is a coincidence. Absolutely. Even if Vollmer is the next Orlando Pace, do you really think a LT is the difference in those losses especially the last two weeks. The defense played key roles in those losses.

Besides, you gotta look at the situations. Both Porter and Taylor were invisible yesterday. It was the interior of the line that had problems yesterday with Randy Starks in his face all game.


With all the other problems with this team, I don't see the Pats being anything other than 7-5 no matter who was the LT. I know you love Vollmer, but to say that he was the missing piece to avoid the losses the Pats have is ignoring a lot of problems with this team.

I understand what you're saying, and I pointed some of it out in the OP.

But the difference in offensive performance with Vollmer in the lineup is striking. There's no getting around the fact that the offense played it's best when Vollmer was the starting LT, by a wide margin.

This may be coincidence. But it may be more. Some thoughts which come to mind:

1. Vollmer brings a level of physical dominance and nastiness which Light doesn't have, and which may rub off on other parts of the OL.

2. Vollmer shutting down the left side may allow Mankins to help out more in the middle, addressing at least some of the other weaknesses on the line.

You may be right. But the "coincidence" is awfully striking, to say the least.

 

[BelichickFan]

Yes, it is a coincidence. Absolutely. Even if Vollmer is the next Orlando Pace, do you really think a LT is the difference in those losses especially the last two weeks. The defense played key roles in those losses.

It could. Games often come down to one play. If we'd had the big, bad, German to run behind on the 4th and 1 maybe we get the first down. Then the TD. 21-7 at the half not 14-10. I don't know if it would have happened but clearly one player making a difference on one play can be that difference.

 

[Batman]

Indeed it makes a difference If The LT can handle the left side on his own the LG can help the centre more or block on his own which frees the centre to help the RG or again might be able to handle the guy on his own allowing the RG to help the RT who is a "human turnstile" also means that TE can get out as a receiver Does anyone know of any up to date sacks allowed stats for the year?

 

[Fencer]

Indeed it makes a difference If The LT can handle the left side on his own the LG can help the centre more or block on his own which frees the centre to help the RG or again might be able to handle the guy on his own allowing the RG to help the RT who is a "human turnstile" also means that TE can get out as a receiver Does anyone know of any up to date sacks allowed stats for the year?

There was a link in another thread. The turnstile has given up zero penalties, very few sacks, but a lot of pressures.

 

[Fencer]

Anyhow, Vollmer is a rookie who's had more than one injury his rookie season. I doubt BB is going to move either Vollmer or Light into Kaczur's spot, just because of that.

We've seen nothing to make us fear for Vollmer's durability over his career. But we have to wonder about his durability while he's still rookie raw.

 

[mayoclinic]

Indeed it makes a difference If The LT can handle the left side on his own the LG can help the centre more or block on his own which frees the centre to help the RG or again might be able to handle the guy on his own allowing the RG to help the RT who is a "human turnstile" also means that TE can get out as a receiver Does anyone know of any up to date sacks allowed stats for the year?

Thta's a very good point.

In the 2nd quarter we had 3rd and 1 at the Miami 6, and twice ran to the left side for no gain. Having Vollmer might well have made a huge difference.

In the 4th quarter we had 1st and goal at the Miami 9, and ran twice to the right side for -1 yard (one nullified by 12 men on the field for Miami), followed by a Brady interception in the end zone. Having Vollmer might have allowed us to run the ball in.

Add 14 points and we win 35-22, and are scoring in the mid 30's again instead of in the low 20's.

 

[DarrylS]

When I read these threads always wonder if much of this may be due to a very predictable offense and obvious tendencies??? That allows the D to just tee off and wreck havoc...somewhere along the line this team showed some tendencies, Indy?... and folks have been beating us up since then...

Time to do something different... blocking schemes? Play calling??

 

[The Dynasty]

Anyhow, Vollmer is a rookie who's had more than one injury his rookie season. I doubt BB is going to move either Vollmer or Light into Kaczur's spot, just because of that.

We've seen nothing to make us fear for Vollmer's durability over his career. But we have to wonder about his durability while he's still rookie raw.

I think once Vollmer is fully healthy he will take some of Kazur's snaps at RT. How can you not have a guy with the talent that Vollmer has starting on your O line?

I dont know if Vollmer is the difference in these loses because a LT cannot make that much of a difference, but it does show how valuable Vollmer is to this team, as well as showing that Vollmer is probably a little more talented than Light.

 

[satz]

Yesterday and last few weeks the presure is coming from the right side.

no one is even explaining why Vollmer playing LT will prevent these from the right side.

vollmer has a concussion and i am not sure if he will comeback the same as when he played before. he has not played in a while and coming from a conussion might take some time to catchup.

seems the plan is lets fix the right side by putting vollmer in at LT...great plan

 

[Rob0729]

I understand what you're saying, and I pointed some of it out in the OP.

But the difference in offensive performance with Vollmer in the lineup is striking. There's no getting around the fact that the offense played it's best when Vollmer was the starting LT, by a wide margin.

This may be coincidence. But it may be more. Some thoughts which come to mind:

1. Vollmer brings a level of physical dominance and nastiness which Light doesn't have, and which may rub off on other parts of the OL.

2. Vollmer shutting down the left side may allow Mankins to help out more in the middle, addressing at least some of the other weaknesses on the line.

You may be right. But the "coincidence" is awfully striking, to say the least.

It is also a striking difference with Connelly in for Neal. Koppen getting owned by Randy Starks.

Vollmer's play has been overstated based on the competition he played against in my mind. I thought the only game he really impressed was the Colts' game and I said before the game, he is perfect build to defend against Freeney (even since Orlando Pace gave the blueprint on how to defend him by keeping him away from your body, bigger LTs have been able to neutralize him).

I'm sorry, but Vollmer has been very good, but people overrate his play on this site. He isn't an Orlando Pace guy yet who is a franchise LT. The line is banged up pretty good right now and Vollmer wasn't the only "starter" who has been out.

 

[Rob0729]

It could. Games often come down to one play. If we'd had the big, bad, German to run behind on the 4th and 1 maybe we get the first down. Then the TD. 21-7 at the half not 14-10. I don't know if it would have happened but clearly one player making a difference on one play can be that difference.

Except that 4th and one call was run up the middle not to the outside and it was a stupid FB draw play that never worked since when Weis used to run it all the time back in the day. When Weis left I was happy to see it go with him until this year. Obviously McDaniels had the feeling about that play as I do and Belichick must like it.

The Pats didn't convert the fourth down because they called a stupid gimmick play that even when Weis ran it only worked 5-10% of the time.

 

[mayoclinic]

It is also a striking difference with Connelly in for Neal. Koppen getting owned by Randy Starks.

Vollmer's play has been overstated based on the competition he played against in my mind. I thought the only game he really impressed was the Colts' game and I said before the game, he is perfect build to defend against Freeney (even since Orlando Pace gave the blueprint on how to defend him by keeping him away from your body, bigger LTs have been able to neutralize him).

I'm sorry, but Vollmer has been very good, but people overrate his play on this site. He isn't an Orlando Pace guy yet who is a franchise LT. The line is banged up pretty good right now and Vollmer wasn't the only "starter" who has been out.

Koppen getting owned by Randy Starks could be a direct function of not getting enough inside help, which could be influence by the LG needing to help out the LT.

With Vollmer in the lineup I doubt we run 4 times for -1 yard inside the Miami 10 yard line and end up with 0 points on 2 drives. That means that we win the game.

With Vollmer in the lineup I doubt NO gets consistent pressure on TB with a 3 man line. Vollmer handles the left side by himself and Mankins helps out in the middle. Less consistent pressure on Brady totally changes the complexion of the game. We may still lose, but it's a different game.

The competition he's played against? The Jets pass rush, which decimated the Pats week 2. Dwight Freeney. Joey Porter. Kyle Vanden Bosch. He's played against plenty of good competition.

I think it can make plenty of difference who's at LT. Vollmer's not yet an Orlando Pace kind of guy, and he may never be that good, but when he was in the lineup he dominated the left side to a degree that Matt Light has not, and that made a huge difference in the play of the offense.

 

[102 Pat]

Absolutely a coincidence, but after 2 straight losses, it does make me wonder.

 

[mayoclinic]

Except that 4th and one call was run up the middle not to the outside and it was a stupid FB draw play that never worked since when Weis used to run it all the time back in the day. When Weis left I was happy to see it go with him until this year. Obviously McDaniels had the feeling about that play as I do and Belichick must like it.

The Pats didn't convert the fourth down because they called a stupid gimmick play that even when Weis ran it only worked 5-10% of the time.

What was called with Light and Mankins is irrelevant. With Vollmer and Mankins in the lineup you run over LG/LT. Those 2 guys are a load, and they would likely be able to get enough of a surge to make picking up the 1st down feasible.

 

[mayoclinic]

Absolutely a coincidence, but after 2 straight losses, it does make me wonder.

So you really mean "absolutely a coincidence, except maybe not"?

 

[BritPat]

Light's been himself since he came back, I'm not sure why people are having a go at him. Not to blow my own horn, but I was the first person on this board to spot Vollmer and have supported him since - but Light is our LT and will be until Belichick deems other-wise, and rightly so. He's a 9 year multiple Pro-Bowler who is playing well - there shouldn't really be that much concern about his job right now.

On the other hand, Nick Kaczur.....

LeVoir has to start at RT IMO. Nick's play has been awful since about week 5, and it's getting worse. LeVoir is a good player, and deserves a shot at a starting spot.

 

[Rob0729]

Koppen getting owned by Randy Starks could be a direct function of not getting enough inside help, which could be influence by the LG needing to help out the LT.

With Vollmer in the lineup I doubt we run 4 times for -1 yard inside the Miami 10 yard line and end up with 0 points on 2 drives. That means that we win the game.

With Vollmer in the lineup I doubt NO gets consistent pressure on TB with a 3 man line. Vollmer handles the left side by himself and Mankins helps out in the middle. Less consistent pressure on Brady totally changes the complexion of the game. We may still lose, but it's a different game.

The competition he's played against? The Jets pass rush, which decimated the Pats week 2. Dwight Freeney. Joey Porter. Kyle Vanden Bosch. He's played against plenty of good competition.

I think it can make plenty of difference who's at LT. Vollmer's not yet an Orlando Pace kind of guy, and he may never be that good, but when he was in the lineup he dominated the left side to a degree that Matt Light has not, and that made a huge difference in the play of the offense.

Getting burned by Starks could also mean that Dan Connelly sucks.

If Vollmer is lining up outside, I think the Pats call the same exact play with the same results. You don't run to the outside on a 4th and 1 no matter who your LT is. That means that Vollmer would have had no bearing on that play.

Did you watch the line play yesterday. I saw Connelly and Koppen get owned by Stark while Light handled Porter one on one on several plays. How would Vollmer change that?

Vollmer did handle big name, low production guys like Joey Porter and Kyle Vanden Bosch. Two mediocre players this year (Porter even was playing so poorly that they actually benched him for conduct reasons when last year he refused to come out of a game and got no punishment because he was leading the league in sacks). Seriously, Vanden Bosch has as many sacks as Adalius Thomas this year (3). Porter was a dud until the game after he got deactivated and had a two game resurgence. He didn't have a good game yesterday either. The only real competition he faced was Freeney and I said he did a great job at it. Otherwise, he has faced mediocre competition.