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Vital unresolved anthrax questions and ABC News

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by weswelker#83, Aug 2, 2008.

  1. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    The FBI's lead suspect in the September, 2001 anthrax attacks -- Bruce E. Ivins -- died Tuesday night, apparently by suicide, just as the Justice Department was about to charge him with responsibility for the attacks. For the last 18 years, Ivins was a top anthrax researcher at the U.S. Government's biological weapons research laboratories at Ft. Detrick, Maryland.

    [​IMG]

    By design, those attacks put the American population into a state of intense fear of Islamic terrorism, far more than the 9/11 attacks alone could have accomplished.







    So if the anthrax mailer was a government scientist, when will ABC acknowledge that their "four independent, well placed sources" claiming it came from Iraq were wrong?
    Suicide , eh?? :rolleyes:



    Source:
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/index.html
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2008
  2. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Harry Boy offed himself?:confused:
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As he was either offed or he offed himself, the truth will never be known.. it seems as though there is an effort to close the door on this situation.. guess the media has its man. There will always be conspiracy stories associated with this.
  4. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    FBI was told to blame Anthrax scare on Al Qaeda by White House officials
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...fbi_was_told_to_blame_anthrax_scare_on_a.html


    A conservative concludes al Qaeda was behind the September 2001 anthrax attack.
    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/...da.html?s_cid=rss:barone:anthrax-and-al-qaeda





    Anthrax Attack, widely thought at the time to be an attack by a group such as Al Qaeda (which did take credit at the time, allegedly) was in fact the work of a diabolical evil scientist working for the government. But, in the larger picture, the effects of the Anthrax Murders and the way it was handled at the political and social levels, are an indictment of George Bush and his administration.
    http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008/08/anthrax_al_qaeda_and_how_havin.php



    I think it likely that the anthrax terrorists were working for Osama bin Laden
    http://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/03_Al_Qaeda_Anthrax.htm




    Wake up Sheeple!
  5. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Probably can be traced right to Bush, ha Wes?
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    yeah, because as we all know, AQ and Iraq had it out for the two most influential Dem legislators as well as Tom Brokaw...

    meanwhile... whallah, Patriot Act vote secured... no need to read it... rush it through...

    most corrupt administration in U.S. history, period... end of story...
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2008
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    huge story right here... and it's growing...

    typical crickets from the empire supporters... perhaps pf13 or someone can show up and spin some new Iraq connection, found only in Yon's blog, or National Review online ...

    :rolleyes:

    What strikes me most is that this (probably genuine) suicide is designed to put a lid upon the conspiratorial facts. The August 1, 2008 Wall Street Journal reported and opined:

    The Justice Department hasn't yet decided whether to close the investigation, officials said, meaning it's still not certain whether Dr. Ivins acted alone or had help. One official close to the case said that decision was expected within days. If the case is closed soon, one official said, that will indicate that Dr. Ivins was the lone suspect.

    I assure you that the Journal is the ghost of our fascist future talking, with Dr. Ivins playing the role of lone nut so certified by both his social worker therapist and his psychiatrist. But the facts say otherwise.

    -- Michael Green, OpEdNews.com​
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    to you Bush Leaguers, some facts to consider ... you know, before you go ahead anyway and dismiss logic and lie to yourself, and punt to posting a witty "tinfoil hat" image:

    . The anthrax attacks were concurrent with the debate of Bush's Patriot Act by Congress and the media.

    ยท The Senators who received anthrax letters were trying to amend the Patriot Act to protect civil liberties and the innocent.

    ยท Two Senate democratic leaders received anthrax letters mailed the same day that Senator Feingold blocked an attempt to rush the bill through without discussion or amendments.

    ยท Senator Leahy received an anthrax threat after he expressed reservations about the Bill. As Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, he managed the debate on the Bill.

    ยท Senate Majority Leader Daschle received the first Senate anthrax letter as he led the opposition to the original version of the Bill.

    ยท After receiving the anthrax letter, Daschle switched from supporting a 2 year limit on the Bill, later defending a 4-year sunset clause as the "appropriate balance."

    ยท No Republican received an anthrax letter.

    ยท The House and Senate buildings were closed and not reopened until after the Patriot Act was passed.

    ยท The Supreme Court was shut down with an anthrax scare the day after the constitutionally-challenged Patriot Act was signed by President Bush.

    ยท All the contaminated letters contained the Ames strain of anthrax, the DNA of which is traced to the original batch preserved in a university lab in Ames, Iowa. This strain was "weaponized" in Utah into a potent powder with an elaborate secret technique developed at Fort Detrick, Md.
    http://www.freefromterror.net/other_articles/gov_anthrax.html

    Yeah.... "please stand back! nothing to see here!...." or, the ultimate: ... "why do you want the terrorists to win?"

    modern fascism... a morally bankrupt political movement ...
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As I mentioned previously, as there are no living "witnesses" conspiracy theories will abound... and a lot of questions will never be answered.
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    yes, but the pro-invasion contingent wants us to believe it's just one coincidence, "easily" explained away by another coincidence, "easily" explained away by another coincidence, "easily" explained away by another coincidence, "easily" explained away by another coincidence, "easily" explained away by another coincidence, "easily" explained away by another coincidence, ...

    to where they feel they can, theoretically, explain that a coin flipped 100 times can easily come up heads 100 times... "happens"

    :rolleyes:

    whether its a lone deranged perpetrator, a poisoned journalist (Ruppert), or a suicidal madam... whether it's the Downing Street memo... Plamegate.... the scoop and dump a million tons of evidence.... NORAD standing down.... 3 simultaneous war game simulations that day... and on and on and on and on and on and on and on... yes, it was all just a "failure of the system," and no one acted unethically, ever...

    don't believe these 'conspiracy theories'.... and be a good little fascist consumer... let the cable TV wash over you... look over there!... it's football soon!!

    :cool:
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  11. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    9-11 and the war on terror was an INSIDE JOB!!!!!!


    These will be known as the worst of times in amercian history.


    This pretty much proves that YOUR governement was behind 9-11 and the selling of the Iraqi invasion for profit. YOU WERE LIED TO, by John McCain, Dick Cheney, the CIA, the FBI and George Bush about this.

    ANTHRAX was sent to people by YOUR government......FRICKIN ANTHRAX!!!!! weapons grade ANTHRAX!!!!

    The lack of public outcry of this is a fukcing shame. You scum suckers who back this criminal administration, under the guise of patriotism should be ashamed.

    I hate what we have become....

    I frickin DARE you 'neo-cons' to defend this act of terrorism on or own citizens by your government.

    no..... I double dog dare ya!

    here is YOUR BOY JOhn McCain .....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlAUj4s6sT0
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  12. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    thank you sir , it had been like this for the last 8 years....
  13. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    I swear....

    There are only about a bakers-dozen peeps on this board that can connect these simple dots, everyone else is concerned about flag pins, gaffs, low tax pledges etc....

    these people don't care about you, or america.
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    If it was ever proven that our government "off'd" any of it's citizens through any overt or covert means, I would say that would be grounds for mass revolution and over-throw of existing leadership and possibly government restructuring. What I'm saying is that it would mean screw allowing the government to do it's own investigation, that would be plain bullsh1t. I'm saying, march on Washington, and demand change. If it's not successful, then physically MAKE the desired changes.

    We own this country, the government does not. Anyone care to "try" to debate that fact?
  15. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    I'll only debate that it's never gonna happen. We are a nation of sheep and lemmings... We're too satiated in our cable TV, iPods, blackberries, porn and sports to ever risk rocking the boat. ... Heck, it's as transparent as anything to any free thinking American that 9/11 was not what it seemed to be, ... yet 7 years later, we've let it pretty much slip from our collective consciousness... At least in terms of demanding real answers and a real independent investigation.

    Sad, but true... Apathy rules the masses. ... There can be no revolution until more people start getting laid off, or dying... .
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2008
  16. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    PC look at the facts you list there and using Occam's razor ask yourself which of these scenarios is more likely:

    1. A researcher who we now know was mentally troubled (from testimony of mental health professionals) and we know had access to the anthrax powder used follows the news of the day about the Patriot Act and decides he must act to stop the Dems from blocking the legislation. He sends out the anthrax powder to the various recipients.

    2. The administration and various other shadowy groups conspire to scare or possibly murder their opposition in the legislative branch, and concoct a scheme involving one easily identified strain of anthrax (rather than either isolating an untraceable strain from the soil, or buying some overseas) That could only lead back to Fort Detrick. They enlist the help of multiple government agencies to procure the samples, send them out, and engineer a huge coverup investigation of innocent people working at Fort Detrick. They then find an innocent patsy to take the fall and either kill him and make it look like a suicide, or just badger him into killing himself.

    so on one hand, you have unstable guy with access to anthrax, and on the other hand you have huge government conspiracy and coverup which includes killing innocent Americans.

    I look at those two possibilities and I see #1 as much more likely. In fact I can't see a way that a government conspiracy would be run in the way this all turned out. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why wouldn't they go all the way and really make it look like a foreign job?
  17. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    Iraq DID IT....
    [​IMG]
  18. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    All I'm saying Wes is if this was a conspiracy at the highest levels of government involving numerous agencies and some very smart people (even if you think Bush is a dummy there are plenty of bright guys affiliated with the PNAC for example), wouldn't they have set up the whole thing to look like a foreign job rather than using anthrax they KNEW would be linked to US government stocks?

    Skepticism is OK, but it has to go both ways. In other words its OK to be skeptical of the official story, but its also OK to point out when the conspiracy theory has holes as well. I don't recall saying anywhere that Iraq did it, just that sometimes some people are so willing to believe the conspiracy theories that they overlook obvious gaps in logic.
  19. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    Last edited: Aug 7, 2008
  20. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    I saw it, and that's awful, but its also a separate issue. If true that would be an example of the White House trying to capitalize on the fears during that time to promote their foreign policy agenda. That is VERY bad, inexcuseable in fact, but it is also a long way from them actually DOING the poisoning.

    Does it all seem a little too convenient? A loner scientist with mental problems acts alone and kills himself just as the feds are closing in? Yes it does. The thing is the other possibilities don't make a lot of sense to me either. That's all I'm trying to say.
  21. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Gosh... Where to begin?

    It's unfortunate for your argument that you're alluding to Occam's Razor, because the simplist explanation is the one that screams for a much closer and transparent look. The lone deranged sociopath theory is falling apart all over the place, and hardly the "simplest explanation."

    The FBI is saying they were "watching" this guy for 18 months, and left him in the lab to do his thing? How curious. Tell us, did the feds watch Ted Kaczinski for 18 months? No, they descended upon him immediately.

    Further, and I'll steal this from another blogger on another site:

    How convenient is it that as soon as he killed himself they come out and ID him and are now convinced of his guilt? Not during the investigation of 7 years but the momenet he killed himself they knew..... It should have been priority #1 to get this man in custody and put him on trial and and punish him publicly, yet they want us to believe they knew it was him and let him roam free as mentally unstable as he allegedly was and risked the fact they he would never have to pay for his crimes? Was wasn't it a priority to capture him????​


    It's always the most convenient timing, whether it's a dead suspect in a case they should have wrapped up years ago, a "suicidal" escort maddam who still had cards to play before sentencing, or a retiring administration official under controversy who just wants to "spend more time with family." Then the damage control spinners spring into action. And everything is deemed "innocuous," and we're all supposed to look away. Nothing to see here.

    To loyal Bushies, it doesn't matter if something smells like cat poop. To them, they refuse to even look, and blindly suggest it's just a skunk outside, or something in the garbage. Because Fluffy would never crap behind the couch.

    The biggest misnomer in all of this is the convenient, repeated self-rationalization that it would have had to be this big conspiracy with countless people involved. Oops, it doesn't. Things are kept quite hushed amid a small number or people, and have been for decades. You need look no further than the Manhattan Project to conceptualize how incredibly easy it is for certain power circles of a government to keep things compartmentalized.

    If they thought he was the man the feds would have immediately detained him and under the loss of liberties we Americans now face, he would have been held as an enemy combatant and kept in custody indefinitely until they decided to try him, or not.

    This is all a typical bunch of crap, and they're pinning this on the one guy that they can heap it all on perfectly. He's dead, it's clean, and it goes away.

    Quite the idealistic lunatic, wasn't he? This sociopathic guy with a "split personality" trying to teach those damned Dem legislators and media a lesson just before the Patiot Act vote. Yes of course. Him and him alone.

    :rolleyes:
  22. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    I will quote my own post PC just so you know where I'm at, you may have missed it because I posted it after that first post:

    "Does it all seem a little too convenient? A loner scientist with mental problems acts alone and kills himself just as the feds are closing in? Yes it does. The thing is the other possibilities don't make a lot of sense to me either. That's all I'm trying to say."

    Why was the FBI watching him? Probably because they lacked the smoking gun. Maybe they were a little gun-shy after harassing and bullying an innocent man earlier in their investigation. For sure they haven't exactly covered themselves with glory with this case, not a lot of good on their end.

    The Manhattan project was huge in scope. All the people at Oak Ridge, In Chicago, and especially in Los Alamos (where they essentially constructed and entire city in the middle of nowhere) knew what they were working on. Ever seen the posters/videos they showed to the people working there? Lots of "loose lips sink ships" kind of stuff. It would never fly today, with so many scientists from the public domain coming in to help the cause, it would be all over the news on day 1 when someone decided to blog about it, or get a check from a magazine for spilling the story.

    Totally disagree about using Occam's razor. The simplest explanation has to be the unstable guy with access to the powder acts alone and tries to cover his tracks by implicating foreign terrorists. Virtually any other explanation is more complex than that one. Of course just because its the simplest explanation doesn't mean it is correct, Occam's razor only says most of the time simple = correct.

    OK back to the game, I'm pretty excited about Mayo and Crable right now. Plus my homeboy Barry Stokes just put a whuppin on some defenders for the Pats first TD.
  23. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    motive, means, opportunity... the man has no motive, limited means, and limited opportunity...
  24. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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  25. Stokes

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    Motive is weak, but means and opportunity would both point directly at this guy as one of the few people in the world with both.

    That rainbow video is good stuff, now I know how Terry Glenn is a Cowgirl is spending his free time.
  26. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    motive is non existant.... means and opportunity is admitted by coworkers to be near impossible without detection....

    again, if they had something concrete on this guy, there would be sealed documents stating such months and months ago...

    they harrassed Hadfield in the same manner before this guy, busting into his girlfriend's house and manhandling her, calling her man a "murderer" without proof... he fought back, and got $6 million for their bravado... then the Feds do the same to this guy's wife and kids....

    Look, he may have processed the poison, fine... But I find it extremely curious that he would target Daschle, Hamilton and Brokaw.... What do we have here? A partisaned scitzo, passionate about the Patriot Act?

    Give us a break.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2008
  27. Holy Diver

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  28. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    haha no, you aren't that bad. That's TGIAC/Mossed81 territory:D
  29. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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  30. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey
    Weren't all those anthrax letters postmarked from Crawford, Texas?

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