Vince Wilfork...on WEEI...

[BradyFTW!]

Someone will.

Who? Al Davis?

 

[tobias funke]

Re: Vince Wilfork....on WEEI...

I thought his rookie contract was finished.

It was just a throwaway figure of speech to refer to the fact that he would be getting an entirely new contract instead of an extension of the deal that expires 2/26.

 

[mgcolby]

Wilfork should be our priority, unless you want to consider a Brady extension the priority. I think the Pats will make a significant offer to him, but if he values himself as much as it sounds, then I doubt the Pats and him will come to an agreement. It takes two to negotiate and if they can't agree, well then the Pats should tag him and draft/develop his replacement.

I have to chuckle at the "Pats FO is dissapointing me" crowd. This front office has been able to bring in guys like Moss, Welker, AD (2007 version was pretty good) etc.. because they don't break their value system for any one player.

And their terrible drafting, signings etc... Over the past 4 years has only led to two AFC championship games, a SB appearance, a 16-0 season, being the first team under the current playoff system to go 11-5 and miss the playoffs after losing Brady, and then 10-6 division winner during a "rebuilding" year on defense (a unit that many of the same "we don't like the FO" crowd was calling to old just a year ago).

The Pats would have probably had a bye if Brady didn't miss 2008 given our sorry schedule (which is why we went 11-5 without him in the first place) and we would have had a great chance at playing in our 5th SB of the decade. But that is neither here nor there.

The bottom line is this. Teams that go shopping for big time FA's rarely succeed because the cap is the great equalizer, overspend on top tier talent and your depth is garbage. The same hold's true for their own big money FA's, if they over value themselves then let them go. Is it a coincidence that the teams that have dominated the decade are the teams that shy away from Tier 1 free agent's? How many big time FA's do the Steelers, Colts and Eagles sign? Most of our big splashes have come through trades (Moss, Dillon, Welker after RFA offer) the only big money FA's I can think of are Colvin and AD. Forgive me if I missed one. The successful team's develop talent and retain their talent at cap friendly prices for the greater good of the team.

 

[Rob0729]

Someone will.

You think. Without a new CBA, no one other than maybe Al Davis would do that. Since Wilfork probably wants a Haynesworth type of deal and giving up a first rounder on top of that with the possibilty that the league is shutdown one of the last two years of Wilfork's 20s; what GM with a brain is going to do that? Especially since this might be the best draft in years with so many underclassmen declaring because of the uncertainty of a rookie cap or even a 2012 season.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

If the organization says wait to February, why is everyone shocked he isn't signed in January?

How many games has Vince missed the past few years?

His market should actually be pretty good with SD/ Miami potentially needing 3-4 NT and I believe KC is in good shape cap wise.

Does anybody remember Vince being a force in 2004, his rookie year? This brings the Brace situation into question.

Half of this board says the the Pats drafting sucks. The other half says we let all out good players walk. What is the real story?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I just hope that the Pats don't try to take advantage of his difficult situation

The only winning strategy is to resign him at a fair price. Anything short of that would be upsetting

what will happen is that wilfork will show up for the bare minimum of what he would be obligated to show up for. which is to say forget seeing him during training camp.......and he will show up 4-6 weeks (or whatever it is) into the season .....

 

[Rob0729]

I have to chuckle at the "Pats FO is dissapointing me" crowd. This front office has been able to bring in guys like Moss, Welker, AD (2007 version was pretty good) etc.. because they don't break their value system for any one player.

And their terrible drafting, signings etc... Over the past 4 years has only led to two AFC championship games, a SB appearance, a 16-0 season, being the first team under the current playoff system to go 11-5 and miss the playoffs after losing Brady, and then 10-6 division winner during a "rebuilding" year on defense (a unit that many of the same "we don't like the FO" crowd was calling to old just a year ago).

The Pats would have probably had a bye if Brady didn't miss 2008 given our sorry schedule (which is why we went 11-5 without him in the first place) and we would have had a great chance at playing in our 5th SB of the decade. But that is neither here nor there.

The bottom line is this. Teams that go shopping for big time FA's rarely succeed because the cap is the great equalizer, overspend on top tier talent and your depth is garbage. Is it a coincidence that the teams that have dominated the decade are the teams that shy away from Tier 1 free agent's? How many big time FA's do the Steelers, Colts and Eagles sign? Most of our big splashes have come through trades (Moss, Dillon, Welker after RFA offer) the only big money FA's I can think of are Colvin and AD. Forgive me if I missed one. The successful team's develop talent and retain their talent at cap friendly prices for the greater good of the team.

I agree. Two years ago, the party line on this board would be either Wilfork takes a value deal or we don't need him. Now because this year was a disapointment, the team is perceived as cheap and should pay Wilfork anything he wants no matter how unreasonable it is.

Even as disapointing the last few years have been, since 2004 only three teams have had more success than the Pats (four if the Saints win a week from this upcoming Sunday).

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I agree the Pats have plenty of cap space. Thomas will only free up $5.8 million in cap space though.

Again, you are assuming the Pats are not offering Wilfork a market or an above market deal. Maybe Wilfork is ridiculous in his demands.

Also, there is no cap and we do not know what a future cap will be. If the league gets their way, the cap growth is going to slow or stop all together. The Pats have to be careful.

based on the way wilfork has carried himself during his time here, I sincerely doubt the pats have offered a market or above market deal for a probowl NT. it would be out of character with the way the pats have done things since day 1. I don't see wilfork as the ridiculous type.....but I have seen the pats as an organization, cut ties with players in almost every way imaginable. they used to get away with it when they were perennial contenders.....they are no longer perennial contenders, and the allure of playing with the pats is quickly tarnishing.

 

[makoute]

You think. Without a new CBA, no one other than maybe Al Davis would do that. Since Wilfork probably wants a Haynesworth type of deal and giving up a first rounder on top of that with the possibilty that the league is shutdown one of the last two years of Wilfork's 20s; what GM with a brain is going to do that? Especially since this might be the best draft in years with so many underclassmen declaring because of the uncertainty of a rookie cap or even a 2012 season.

What about teams that have signed players this past year/season to pretty big contracts?

 

[Rob0729]

what will happen is that wilfork will show up for the bare minimum of what he would be obligated to show up for. which is to say forget seeing him during training camp.......and he will show up 4-6 weeks (or whatever it is) into the season .....

And what if he signs a contract and walks in front of a bus the next day and dies? Let's deal with reality here. Name the last player to hold out well into the season because he was upset with the franchise tag.

The last player to sit out for any reason (at least as far as I can remember) for more than a week was Keenan McCardell in 2004. McCardell was 34 in age and making $2.5 million with two years left on his contract. A totally different situation than Wilfork since McCardell was older, knew he was in his last shot to get a big deal, and not giving up nearly as much money.

Even if they are the same situation, you are talking one player who held out in the last decade. I like the Pats' chances of getting Wilfork to play next season.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I agree. Two years ago, the party line on this board would be either Wilfork takes a value deal or we don't need him. Now because this year was a disapointment, the team is perceived as cheap and should pay Wilfork anything he wants no matter how unreasonable it is.

Even as disapointing the last few years have been, since 2004 only three teams have had more success than the Pats (four if the Saints win a week from this upcoming Sunday).

without knowing what the offers to wilfork have been, it is just assinine to make this statement. maybe the team IS being cheap and are assuming that wilfork should take any deal no matter how cheap it is.

it is safe to say that when it has come to dealing with players, the pats are no pleasures to deal with. based on passed events, it would be much more logical to assume that the pats are the ones yanking chains and not wilfork.

long gone is the day and the notion that 'a player will take less here because it is so much better to play here' ... those days are over and the pats organization did a good job of making sure of that. now whether the decisions made in the past were the right ones or not in themselves, the verdict is out except that you can see this team slipping into mediocrity. wilfork has always been a stand up guy in every aspect of life. you can't say the same about the guy running the show here

 

[tanked_as_usual]

And what if he signs a contract and walks in front of a bus the next day and dies? Let's deal with reality here. Name the last player to hold out well into the season because he was upset with the franchise tag.

The last player to sit out for any reason (at least as far as I can remember) for more than a week was Keenan McCardell in 2004. McCardell was 34 in age and making $2.5 million with two years left on his contract. A totally different situation than Wilfork since McCardell was older, knew he was in his last shot to get a big deal, and not giving up nearly as much money.

Even if they are the same situation, you are talking one player who held out in the last decade. I like the Pats' chances of getting Wilfork to play next season.

but then again, the pats have never tested the mettle of a someone as forthright and principled as wilfork. people with principle are much less likely to 'fall into line'

and yet another assinine analogy with the bus.......

as an NT and the wear and tear and risk of injury, I know that I would hold out until the last moment in order to get my due and security.

you could also say that noone ever pulled a deion branch before deion did it.......there's always a first, and now less than ever under BB, are the patriots an organization a player would go out of his way for

 

[Rob0729]

based on the way wilfork has carried himself during his time here, I sincerely doubt the pats have offered a market or above market deal for a probowl NT. it would be out of character with the way the pats have done things since day 1. I don't see wilfork as the ridiculous type.....but I have seen the pats as an organization, cut ties with players in almost every way imaginable. they used to get away with it when they were perennial contenders.....they are no longer perennial contenders, and the allure of playing with the pats is quickly tarnishing.

It would be totally in character for the Pats to give Wilfork a market deal. They gave both Seymour and Moss above market deals. In fact, Seymour was the highest paid defensive player when he signed his contract for a per year basis.

I know people want to buy into this falicy that the Pats have never gave a player an above market deal while Belichick has been here. As for the day one crap, people forget that in the first two weeks Belichick was here, he gave Lawyer Milloy the most lucrative safety contract ever at the time he signed.

The Pats were in the Super Bowl in 2007, the AFC Championships the year before, they should have made the playoffs last year but because of a fluke 11-5 wasn't good enough to get in and that was without Brady. So we are talking about one year the Pats have not been a perienal contender. If they go two years, we are talking a slump of biblical proportions.

Seriously, sometimes I am ashamed of being a Pats fan for the unrealistic expectations and sense of entitlement of the fans. One bad year (and when I say bad year we are talking a 10 win season and an AFC East title) and the fans are ready to turn on Belichick and Kraft.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

It would be totally in character for the Pats to give Wilfork a market deal. They gave both Seymour and Moss above market deals. In fact, Seymour was the highest paid defensive player when he signed his contract for a per year basis.

I know people want to buy into this falicy that the Pats have never gave a player an above market deal while Belichick has been here. As for the day one crap, people forget that in the first two weeks Belichick was here, he gave Lawyer Milloy the most lucrative safety contract ever at the time he signed.

The Pats were in the Super Bowl in 2007, the AFC Championships the year before, they should have made the playoffs last year but because of a fluke 11-5 wasn't good enough to get in and that was without Brady. So we are talking about one year the Pats have not been a perienal contender. If they go two years, we are talking a slump of biblical proportions.

Seriously, sometimes I am ashamed of being a Pats fan for the unrealistic expectations and sense of entitlement of the fans. One bad year (and when I say bad year we are talking a 10 win season and an AFC East title) and the fans are ready to turn on Belichick and Kraft.

please.......stop with the dramatics.......if you don't see a team in decline, then you're still drunk on the kool-aid....currently, under contract: ONE starting caliber DL (warren) and ONE starting caliber LB (mayo)

the only thing is happening is that wilfork is regretting not making a stink a year ago. but he did not make a stink solely on the same kind of principle I try to teach my kids....being a man of your word (which he is).....one thing I can tell you for sure, is that Belichik (as great a football mind as he is) can not hold a match to wilfork when it comes to character and principle. to deny that is to again be wasted on the kool-aid

 

[mgcolby]

It would be totally in character for the Pats to give Wilfork a market deal. They gave both Seymour and Moss above market deals. In fact, Seymour was the highest paid defensive player when he signed his contract for a per year basis.

I know people want to buy into this falicy that the Pats have never gave a player an above market deal while Belichick has been here. As for the day one crap, people forget that in the first two weeks Belichick was here, he gave Lawyer Milloy the most lucrative safety contract ever at the time he signed.

The Pats were in the Super Bowl in 2007, the AFC Championships the year before, they should have made the playoffs last year but because of a fluke 11-5 wasn't good enough to get in and that was without Brady. So we are talking about one year the Pats have not been a perienal contender. If they go two years, we are talking a slump of biblical proportions.

Seriously, sometimes I am ashamed of being a Pats fan for the unrealistic expectations and sense of entitlement of the fans. One bad year (and when I say bad year we are talking a 10 win season and an AFC East title) and the fans are ready to turn on Belichick and Kraft.

Yup, it is a disgrace. I drove up from VA for the Ravens game just to have the privilage of sitting next to a jackass that started chanting "Hoyer" repeatedly throughout the game after Brady threw his first pick. It took every ounce of will power I had not to punch him in the face!

 

[Rob0729]

but then again, the pats have never tested the mettle of a someone as forthright and principled as wilfork. people with principle are much less likely to 'fall into line'

and yet another assinine analogy with the bus.......

as an NT and the wear and tear and risk of injury, I know that I would hold out until the last moment in order to get my due and security.

you could also say that noone ever pulled a deion branch before deion did it.......there's always a first, and now less than ever under BB, are the patriots an organization a player would go out of his way for

Yes, Wilfork said he was going to hold out last season on principles and he sold out his principles the first day of training camp. This wouldn't be the first time Wilfork threatened to hold out.

As for Branch, it is a different situation. The Pats gave Branch grounds to file a grievance by allowing him to shop himself around and then having him get multiple offers and then not allowing him to be traded arguing that they weren't getting value back because they wanted two firsts for him. Wilfork's compensation is clear - 2 first rounders. Branch filed a grievance and the league pressured the Pats to trade him. Won't happen with Wilfork.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Yup, it is a disgrace. I drove up from VA for the Ravens game just to have the privilage of sitting next to a jackass that started chanting "Hoyer" repeatedly throughout the game after Brady threw his first pick. It took every ounce of will power I had not to punch him in the face!

that and the fact that he probably would have torn you limb from limb

not that your comment (or Robs for that fact) is in any way relevant to the wilfork contract situation

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Yes, Wilfork said he was going to hold out last season on principles and he sold out his principles the first day of training camp. This wouldn't be the first time Wilfork threatened to hold out.

As for Branch, it is a different situation. The Pats gave Branch grounds to file a grievance by allowing him to shop himself around and then having him get multiple offers and then not allowing him to be traded arguing that they weren't getting value back because they wanted two firsts for him. Wilfork's compensation is clear - 2 first rounders. Branch filed a grievance and the league pressured the Pats to trade him. Won't happen with Wilfork.

you're talking in circles......stop acting like you know what is going to happen

and whatever wilfork does will not be based whatever you have to say.

I know what I would do......

 

[tanked_as_usual]

What about teams that have signed players this past year/season to pretty big contracts?

Rob will have you believe they are not the patriots and don't do it the patriot way

so Rob, are the pats in decline or not?

 

[Rob0729]

without knowing what the offers to wilfork have been, it is just assinine to make this statement. maybe the team IS being cheap and are assuming that wilfork should take any deal no matter how cheap it is.

it is safe to say that when it has come to dealing with players, the pats are no pleasures to deal with. based on passed events, it would be much more logical to assume that the pats are the ones yanking chains and not wilfork.

long gone is the day and the notion that 'a player will take less here because it is so much better to play here' ... those days are over and the pats organization did a good job of making sure of that. now whether the decisions made in the past were the right ones or not in themselves, the verdict is out except that you can see this team slipping into mediocrity. wilfork has always been a stand up guy in every aspect of life. you can't say the same about the guy running the show here

If I remember correctly, you were the same person who killed the Pats for not giving Seymour whatever he wanted and guess what they gave him exactly what he wanted.

It is assinine to say the Pats are being cheap and playing hardball with Wilfork without knowing what their offers are, but you are basically saying that. I think based on recent deals for Seymour, Thomas, Welker, and Thomas (not to mention at a lesser level the above market deals for Stallworth, Fred Taylor, Shawn Springs, etc); the Pats get a bad rap for their negotiations.

Just because the Pats are tough negotiators doesn't mean they can't be fair. They gave above market deals to the players I listed. Their reputation is overstated.