Veteran QBs

[Lamanai]

Now that jay Fiedler is off the market, who is the favorite to become the Patriots veteran clipboard holder ?

There are a few unappealing Free Agents available, but I haven't seen any names worth metioning. So I guess that leaves us with possible late preseason cuts. Hard to say who will be availabel because of injuries, young guys stepping up or not, etc... But here are a few possiblities (feel free to add):

Damon Huard
Todd Collins
Jesse Palmer
Tim Rattay

Out of that grouping, I would prefer Rattay. IIR, he was mentioned in "Patriot Reign" as the *other guy* the late **** Rehbein recommended. Any other possible cuts we should be looking at ?

 

[tombonneau]

Didn't realize Rattay was available. I think he would make an excellent #2/3. Got some starter experience, and never really was able to develop properly on a crappy SF team. And he's not too old either, so if it works out he could stick around for awhile. Makes sense to me.

 

[Lamanai]

Didn't realize Rattay was available. I think he would make an excellent #2/3. Got some starter experience, and never really was able to develop properly on a crappy SF team. And he's not too old either, so if it works out he could stick around for awhile. Makes sense to me.

He's not really available, but I am speculating that he could be cut. he is looking for a job with Tampa Bay, and they have the ofollowing QBs listed on their roster:

Simms - Starter
Fieldler -Just signed as backup
McCown - Young prospect, recovering from knee injury
Gradkoswki - 6th round draft choice
Rattay - ???


Again, I am just guessing that he is vulnerable, and could become available. What if we spun them a 6th round pick ?

 

[spacecrime]

Didn't realize Rattay was available.

He's not. This is one of those threads where you pick a player on another team that you want for the pats because he is a good player and will really help the pats, and then say the other team will cut him because ... well, the logic escapes me here. But if we are going to pick a backup QB currently under contract for another team, the heck with Rattay. Let's pick up David Garrard.

 

[pats1]

Huard won't be cut unless Casey Printers beats him out. Unlikely.

(#1 - Trent Green. #2 - Brodie Croyle (3rd round pick). #3 - Damon Huard. #4 - Casey Printers (hasn't played an NFL down - former CFL player)

Todd Collins won't be cut unless Corey's brother Casey Bramlet beats him out. Unlikely.

(#1 - Mark Brunell. #2 - Jason Campbell. #3 - Todd Collins. #4 - Casey Bramlet.)

Jesse Palmer won't be cut unless Shaun Hill beats him out. Cody Pickett sealed his fate when he elected not to to go NFLE.

(#1 - Alex Smith. #2 - Trent Dilfer. #3 - Jesse Palmer. #4 - Cody Pickett. #5 - Shaun Hill. #6 - Bryson Spinner (UDFA)

 

[Fanfrom1960]

Didn't realize Rattay was available. I think he would make an excellent #2/3. Got some starter experience, and never really was able to develop properly on a crappy SF team. And he's not too old either, so if it works out he could stick around for awhile. Makes sense to me.

Rattay was awful for the 49ers, coughing up decent leads, throwing Ints at all the wrong times (as if there is a right time). Even though he was on a bad team, the QB job was his to lose, and he lost it. Say no to him, please.

Edit, had more time than I thought: the thing about Rattay is that he would actually be playing pretty well in the first half, help build up a lead, then the defense would get after him more and he'd fold, throwing the ball up for grabs with any pressure at all on him. He doesn't move well in the pocket either. Not what I'd want, a second half folder, that is.

 

[Welker83]

collins followed saunders to the skins...he wont be going anywhere cause he knows the sytem.

 

[tombonneau]

According to espn.com these are the FA QBs out there (obv. not totally up-to-date given Fiedler's inclusion)

Tony Banks
Jeff Blake
Kerry Collins
Ty Detmer
Jay Fiedler
Shaun Hill
Kliff Kingsbury
Tommy Maddox
Shane Matthews
J.T. O'Sullivan
Dave Ragone
Kordell Stewart
Seneca Wallace

Ragone & Wallace are RFAs with HOU & SEA respectively.

Of them, I'd rather spend a little extra $$ and sign Collins if its feasible. Say what you want about the guy, I think he's the only one on that list the Pats could win a significant number of games with if The Unspeakable happens.

Or maybe O'Sullivan. Dont know much about him, but he's a younger guy, i.e. unconfirmed turd, so he could have some upside.

 

[pats1]

According to espn.com these are the FA QBs out there (obv. not totally up-to-date given Fiedler's inclusion)

Tony Banks
Jeff Blake
Kerry Collins
Ty Detmer
Jay Fiedler
Shaun Hill
Kliff Kingsbury
Tommy Maddox
Shane Matthews
J.T. O'Sullivan
Dave Ragone
Kordell Stewart
Seneca Wallace

Ragone & Wallace are RFAs with HOU & SEA respectively.

Of them, I'd rather spend a little extra $$ and sign Collins if its feasible. Say what you want about the guy, I think he's the only one on that list the Pats could win a significant number of games with if The Unspeakable happens.

Or maybe O'Sullivan. Dont know much about him, but he's a younger guy, i.e. unconfirmed turd, so he could have some upside.

Ragone was waived in May by the Texans. The Bengals claimed him, and then traded Ragone to the Rams for a draft pick. This was the first move of the new Rams' GM (Softli), and was scrutinized because Ragone was reportedly going to be released by the Bengals anyway.

J.T. O'Sullivan has been with (still is) with the Vikings since his signing in November.

Wallace re-signed awhile ago.

Shaun Hill was signed by the 49ers last month.

Kliff Kingsbury was claimed off waivers from the Jets by the Bills in June. He's still with the Bills.

Shane Matthews will probably just retire.

I wouldn't touch Kordell Stewart with a 10-foot stick.



KFFL has the most updated free agent roster (certainly not complete by any means (no Kole Ayi or T.J. Turner!), but since KFFL's database is updated with every little waiver pickup, move, and retirement, this list is highly accurate):

http://www.kffl.com/nfldc.php/38/nfl


Ricky Ray is there, and is a big star up in the CFL. Didn't look that bad in a CFL game I saw on NESN last week. Didn't last too long with the Jets though in the NFL, so I wouldn't go there either.

The players with recent on that free agent list have a

graphic next to them. You can tell it's updated despite it saying May 29th on the bottom, as Adrian Mayes is on there, who was just released yesterday.

And here's a chart, if you need it, of recently retired players:

http://www.kffl.com/nfldc.php/73/nfl

And for the Pats:

http://www.kffl.com/nfldc.php/24/nfl

 

[GoWhalers]

Aside from Kerry Collins, I'd go for Tony Banks off of that list. He actually filled in decently when David Carr went down injured in Houston back in 2003. He was 2-1 in games started, beating Carolina and Atlanta, and losing to the Pats 20-23.

Banks is one of those guys who you're always trying to replace on your roster, but then will show up as a second-stringer and surprisingly win a game or two.

 

[tombonneau]

Banks isn't bad as a backup. But doesn't he have a crazy fumbling problem? I seem to remember him setting some kind of fumbling record. (?)

We already have Caldwell & Faulk. We don't need to make it a triumverate.

 

[pats1]

Banks isn't bad as a backup. But doesn't he have a crazy fumbling problem? I seem to remember him setting some kind of fumbling record. (?)

We already have Caldwell & Faulk. We don't need to make it a triumverate.

First of all, the most fumbles Caldwell's had in a season is 3. Secondly, he's only had 3 combined in the past 2 seasons. Faulk's gotten 6, 4, and 3 twice.

But yes, Banks certainly has a fumbling problem:

Year 	 Team 	                G 	Fum 	Lost

1996	St. Louis Rams	        14	21	11
1997	St. Louis Rams	        16	15	7
1998	St. Louis Rams          14	10	3
1999	Baltimore Ravens	12	11	6	
2000	Baltimore Ravens	11	5	0
2001	Washington Redskins	15	10      4
2002	Houston Texans	        0	0       0
2003	Houston Texans	        7	1       0
2004	Houston Texans	        5	0	0
2005	Houston Texans	        3	0       0

Banks' scouting report also says he forces the ball into coverage, and makes poor decisions under pressure despite his experience. He doesn't have good pocket presence or a quick release, adding to the fumble problem. He also isn't a threat as a runner, lacks ideal leadership skills and is a locker room distraction.

(Scouts, Inc.)

 

[RayClay]

He's not really available, but I am speculating that he could be cut. he is looking for a job with Tampa Bay, and they have the ofollowing QBs listed on their roster:

Simms - Starter
Fieldler -Just signed as backup
McCown - Young prospect, recovering from knee injury
Gradkoswki - 6th round draft choice
Rattay - ???


Again, I am just guessing that he is vulnerable, and could become available. What if we spun them a 6th round pick ?

You realize that would be the ultimate Karmic Boomerang?

 

[RayClay]

I'd be fine with Maddox or Detmer. Both career backups who have stepped in and played well.

That's all you need, somebody who can manage a few games if needed and give you a chance.

 

[RayClay]

First of all, the most fumbles Caldwell's had in a season is 3. Secondly, he's only had 3 combined in the past 2 seasons. Faulk's gotten 6, 4, and 3 twice.

But yes, Banks certainly has a fumbling problem:

Year 	 Team 	                G 	Fum 	Lost

1996	St. Louis Rams	        14	21	11
1997	St. Louis Rams	        16	15	7
1998	St. Louis Rams          14	10	3
1999	Baltimore Ravens	12	11	6	
2000	Baltimore Ravens	11	5	0
2001	Washington Redskins	15	10      4
2002	Houston Texans	        0	0       0
2003	Houston Texans	        7	1       0
2004	Houston Texans	        5	0	0
2005	Houston Texans	        3	0       0

Banks' scouting report also says he forces the ball into coverage, and makes poor decisions under pressure despite his experience. He doesn't have good pocket presence or a quick release, adding to the fumble problem. He also isn't a threat as a runner, lacks ideal leadership skills and is a locker room distraction.

(Scouts, Inc.)

Next! I want a backup that will cough it up twice a game.

 

[RayClay]

Banks' scouting report also says he forces the ball into coverage, and makes poor decisions under pressure despite his experience. He doesn't have good pocket presence or a quick release, adding to the fumble problem. He also isn't a threat as a runner, lacks ideal leadership skills and is a locker room distraction.

(Scouts, Inc.)

Other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'd be fine with Maddox or Detmer. Both career backups who have stepped in and played well.

That's all you need, somebody who can manage a few games if needed and give you a chance.

The last time Detmer stepped in and played well was in the 1990's. The last time he started it was for 4 games in 2001 and he threw 3 TD/10INT. Maddoux had one good season with Pittsburgh, one not so good and injury shortened season, and in the last two years in 5 starts he has been nothing short of abyssmal - QB rating in the mid 50's. Because these guys have hung around so long they would cost almost a million. And while we have cap space and they would only count the minimum, you still have to pay payroll and I doubt good business men like Belioli or Kraft will justify that kind of cash squander.

Rattay was not **** Rehbein's choice, he was one of two BB was intrigued by and after being dispatched to work out both Rehbein returned with the verdict that (in his opinion) Brady was the one you wanted. Belichick agreed, yet on draft day as the picks flew by Rehbein had to lobby to get him selected before we ran out of picks.

It would be great if there were someone out there who would be an improvement on a rookie or NFLE QB. I don't see anyone whose skill or experience is clearly better than their potential. I think we go to camp and see what develops and only make a move if we absolutely have to and if someone who actually can help shakes loose. I doubt it will be a backup, more like a competent scout QB who would only see action were hell to freeze over. If I had to guess, that might be Rohan.

 

[flutie2phelan]

.... I doubt it will be a backup, more like a competent scout QB who would only see action were hell to freeze over. If I had to guess, that might be Rohan.

This thread has grown from a yawner on another well-aired topic
to become quite an interesting and informative discussion.
Thanks, guys!

You will become long-renowned as a prophet, Mo,
if Rohan should return!
And hell indeed shall have frozen over ... and pigs will be nesting in trees.

 

[RayClay]

The last time Detmer stepped in and played well was in the 1990's. The last time he started it was for 4 games in 2001 and he threw 3 TD/10INT. Maddoux had one good season with Pittsburgh, one not so good and injury shortened season, and in the last two years in 5 starts he has been nothing short of abyssmal - QB rating in the mid 50's. Because these guys have hung around so long they would cost almost a million. And while we have cap space and they would only count the minimum, you still have to pay payroll and I doubt good business men like Belioli or Kraft will justify that kind of cash squander.

Rattay was not **** Rehbein's choice, he was one of two BB was intrigued by and after being dispatched to work out both Rehbein returned with the verdict that (in his opinion) Brady was the one you wanted. Belichick agreed, yet on draft day as the picks flew by Rehbein had to lobby to get him selected before we ran out of picks.

It would be great if there were someone out there who would be an improvement on a rookie or NFLE QB. I don't see anyone whose skill or experience is clearly better than their potential. I think we go to camp and see what develops and only make a move if we absolutely have to and if someone who actually can help shakes loose. I doubt it will be a backup, more like a competent scout QB who would only see action were hell to freeze over. If I had to guess, that might be Rohan.

Good post. I don't think I like your conclusion, though. You can certainly pick out bad stats for vets who have had some starts. That's why they lost the job.

As you have noted, both of these have also started in emergency situations and helped the team win. That's not something you can say about Rohan.

If we've indeed found a gem in Cassel, I think we need a savvy vet for third string, If Cassel wins the backup job.

I'm not in love with these two, (I do think Maddox is a good backup though), but I think we need someone besides Brady who has played under some pressure.

No matter how you twist it, neither Cassel nor Rohan qualify.

 

[Lamanai]

He's not. This is one of those threads where you pick a player on another team that you want for the pats because he is a good player and will really help the pats, and then say the other team will cut him because ... well, the logic escapes me here. But if we are going to pick a backup QB currently under contract for another team, the heck with Rattay. Let's pick up David Garrard.

No, it is not a case of picking a player I want. It is a case of identifying players that *may* be available through the natural course of NFL transactons. I thought it was clear that the premise was that our 3rd QB may be a guy cut from another team and not one of the existing Free Agents. The logic that escapes you is that a team with five QBs (like Tampa Bay) will probably only keep three, so two will be cut loose. Rattay may be one of the two. Simple actually.