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Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Joey007, Oct 30, 2012.

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  1. Joey007

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    ...and it's actually positive.


    The Pats lead the league with 14 FF and 11 FR's.
    :eek: :eek: :eek:
    That's insane. That's 3 more FR's than anyone else in the league. 20 turnovers so far counting the 9 INT's as well.

    Bizarre considering how poor the back 4 have been playing. This goes to show how Spikes is truly playing at a pro bowl-caliber level. He just makes plays.
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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    I've been following the NFL since 1960 and consider myself a bit of a stats geek in some ways, but what the hell is an "FF?" I kind of can figure out that an FR is a "Fumble Recovery" unless it's a "Frigid Rastafarian."
  3. Bella*chick

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Forced fumble, maybe?
  4. Elijah

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Forced Fumble.
  5. Joey007

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    My apoligies. Yes, FF is forced fumble and FR is fumble recoveries. I usually abbreviate them.
  6. RodThePat

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    That's all great, but I'd rather have a defense that consistently makes the opponent punt the ball, than one who gets a lot of takeaways. Turnovers, especially fumble recoveries, have an inherent component of luck to them. Not saying that it means our defense is without it's merits, but I just worry that on a day where our offense isn't setting the world on fire and we, for some reason, don't get the ball when it hits the ground on defense, we end up losing the game, just like it happened in the Superbowl.
  7. PatsFanSince74

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    OK. Then, what's the big deal? "We hit our opponents hard and they fumble a lot if they don't first throw the ball to receivers with ten yards of separation on our 'secondary?'" :confused:
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  8. Joey007

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    I agree. These recoveries overall won't mean much when you're letting the opposing QB's run you over the rest of the day. Thankfully, we're still only midway through the season so our defensive woes can certainly be fixed.

    As for luck being involved you're right. Fumble recoveries do invlolve luck. But remember forcing the fumbles does not involve luck but invlolves the defensive player getting his hands on the ball and taking it away from the ball carrier. They don't call them takeaways for no reason.
  9. ALP

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    i would normally agree, but not this year w/ this team, many of those came b/c the defense was actively looking/creating them
  10. Patriots Nation NY

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    uggghhh ... luck is the residue of design grasshopper..
  11. sly24

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    More importantly, Jones leads all rookies with 6.0 sacks (12th in the league). He's also got 3 forced fumbles and that's good for 2nd in the league. He also has only 1 less tackle than JJ Watt. Ninko is tied for first in the league with 4 forced fumbles. If the secondary could learn to play shutdown man-to-man, this defense could be SCARY!
  12. Joey007

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Again this is really about the front 7's performance taking the ball away since most of the fumbles forced were no thanks to the secondary. My point I was trying to make wasn't really much to do with the secondary, but more about guys like Mayo, Spikes, Jones, Wilfork, and Ninkovich who have been making plays.
  13. AndyJohnson

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    You can say the same thing about a defense that is good on 3rd down and doesn't take the ball away.
    Ultimately 'good' vs 'average' on 3rd down is about 1 conversion a game.
    Example:
    49ers are 3rd best in 3rd down conversions at 32% (34/107) in 8 games and the Rams are 17th at 40% (41/103) in 8 games. The Rams are mediocre at 3rd down D by allowing less than 1 more conversion a game.
    By contrast we are 24th at 43/101 for 43%, but we have 20 takeaways, vs 9 for the Rams and 12 for the 9ers.
    Therefore, the Rams have allowed 2 fewer conversions than us, but our additional 11 takeaways means we get off the field better, and the 49ers allowed 9 fewer conversions but our 8 additional takeaways makes it virtually even.
    Perception and reality often conflict.
  14. Joey007

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Easier said than done for sure. :cool:
  15. ausbacker

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    The secondary only needs to improve to mediocre for the D to become a good unit. That says volumes about the performance of the secondary and/or the DB coaching.
  16. Joey007

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    If they can at least turn into playing near middle-of-the-pack, that's still a possibility.

    But he's talking shut-down. We're not the 49ers here.
  17. supafly

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    With McCourty showing solid play at safety (our version of FS) and Dennard taking his place just fine, that already bodes well for an improved secondary down the stretch in my opinion.

    Cole seems to have earned more reps as a slot CB too, which is just another bonus.

    The weak links are Chung and Arrington, so it will all depend on how/when Belichick incorporates them back into the lineup. When that happens, we will likely see a step or two down again in my opinion.

    I think the others have proven to be just as capable, if not more at this point.
  18. supafly

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    No, and that's a fair point, but we don't have to be either.
  19. Joey007

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Didn't say we had to. I was just saying we have no where near a top tier secondary on our roster, but that is okay.
  20. supafly

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Sure because in the same vein, the 49ers are not the NEP on offense either.

    Like you said, there's no way that they will even be considered "shutdown," but something in the middle would be just fine for the majority of the games.

    I expected a point or two shaved off the defensive average coming into the season, and sadly that has not happened as of yet.
  21. Joey007

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Another great point. This is why I'm not as scared of a team like SF, and terrified of a team like the Giants. The 9ers don't go deep. That's the key to beating this defense, burn them deep. This defense is actually pretty solid when it comes to 15 yards-or-less plays, and that's their style, methodically move down the field, and win the time of possesion. So when the Pats D plays offenses like theirs, they eventually make a play to stop the drive. New England's D gets beat by getting burned deep, not as often by slow, methodical drives.
  22. ATippett56

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    2012 New England Patriots Defense

    Forced Fumbles

    Ninkovich 4
    Jones 3
    Mayo 3
    Spikes 2
    Wilfork 1
    Moore 1

    2012 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

    Patrick Chung and Steve Gregory don't contribute to the turnover department. The aforementioned two have contributed zero forced fumbles and one interception. I can foresee a major upgrade necessitated at the safety position for the 2013 NFL Season.
  23. supafly

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    I agree with you 100%.

    It will certainly be a test vs. the brutal 49ers defense, don't get me wrong, but I think a team like the NYG poses much more of a challenge due to being well-rounded on both sides of the ball.
  24. KontradictioN

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    It would be nice to have a defense that does both, which (I would suspect) is ultimately Belichick's goal.
  25. ivanvamp

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Yes, in the big picture. But in any given moment, luck is just luck. For example, take a look at this play from the Super Bowl last year:

    The Sports Swami: Nicks Fumble

    There are six, count 'em, SIX, Patriots around the ballcarrier (Nicks), and no Giant in the screen whatsoever. They have Nicks surrounded, except for one little crease between Ninkovich and I think either Mark Anderson or Chung (can't tell, but there's a 5 as the second number in the uniform). Guess where the ball goes? Yep, right in that little seam, and RIGHT to a Giants player that's trailing the play but who is so far out of the play at the moment that he's not even in the picture.

    That drive led to a FG that cut the Pats' lead to 17-15. It was a *huge* play in the game. The Pats made a great play, causing a fumble. They had six guys around the ball, swarming defense. And yet, the ball bounced right to a Giants player (Hynoski).

    :mad:
  26. Brady'sButtBoy

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    BB himself regularly says that winning the turnover battle has the closest correlation to winning.
  27. PatsFanSince74

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Yep. That and five bucks will get us an overpriced latte at Starbucks.
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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    Matt Patricia must be greasing the other team's balls or something. Wait until ESPN commentator Eric rat snitch ingrate Mangini hears about this and reports it to Commissioner GoodJet - you can kiss the 2013 first round draft choice goodbye!
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  29. JJDChE

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries


    It's ridiculous how far under the radar Ninkovich stays. 4 forced fumbles and 4 sacks is a pretty damn good stat line. He's been playing better as the season wears on, too. He has a real good shot at leading the league in FFs. The guy just keeps getting better.
  30. Joey007

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    re: Very Staggering Stat On Defense: Pats lead NFL in Forced Fumbles & Fumble Recoveries

    The only place Ninkovich isn't under the radar is Madden 13, he's actually 90 overall. :D
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