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Verbosity

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I recently started a thread here that led two of our number to go on repeatedly about how terrible it is to write long posts.

    The post was 771 words long. This is the length of a long op-ed piece, or twice the length of a short one.

    A "novel," by our local standards, as I understand this.

    This thread is a home for these disruptive posters' concerns about others' posting habits.

    Having written novels, I'm well aware that the standard length of them is now on the order of 70,000 or 80,000 words, whereas 100,000 words was more common in my youth. A Neal Stephenson may weigh in at more like 200,000 - 300,000 words, and I usually love every one of them.

    Having written op-ed columns, I'm well aware you can publish and get paid for 800, 900, even 1,000 words, but you consign yourself more and more to local outlets when you ramble past 600.

    Patsfans' post limit -- probably a technical limit with no real intention regarding style -- is 10,000 characters. If you use only short words, and disregard spaces, this is perhaps 2,000 words. Maybe it's 1,000 words, at the "outside," but I doubt it's even close.

    Many many thousands of words are wasted here on Patsfans on what the authors imagine must be the soul of wit: brief, ignorant, snarky comments and personal attacks, thinly veiled or unveiled racist, sexist, or homophobic snipes, personal bickering, and the like.

    Thinking people take many twists and turns in their political thinking. This is obviously reined in upon editing, but as long as it may take to write 700 words, it takes longer to edit and polish. When doing so for professional publication, it can very easily take quite a bit longer than the rough draft. What we post here are rough drafts.

    However, the main purpose for longish posts is to make a thorough post that treats a particular facet of a point of view, and anticipates various responses. This is what we call "depth."

    While this is not important for a personal attack, a racist slur, or a kneejerk response, it is in fact quite important for weighing, characterizing, and getting to the heart of much political debate.

    Since there is no "next commercial" here, since we're not tweeting, I have found that the BBS is actually the perfect venue for such back and forth. It is also more popularly used for very shallow, and very stupid, responses.

    Is there a "best practice?" I don't think either preposterously long posts or stupid sniping are ideal. But for interesting dialog, the former sin is far less debilitating than the latter.

    "I and many other posters" have given the perpetrators of the latter "hints," but they don't take them, to coin a phrase.

    Guess what? We who think also judge you who don't. Judgment of others' posting styles is far from a one way street.

    So, if you have a case to make on this subject, make it here.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  2. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    PFiVA....

    No one said you're a bad guy...just a verbose guy.

    Get over yourself...PLEASE!

    Funny how you "slipped-in" the fact you've "written novels" as if anyone really gives a crap.

    Here's a hint, don't compare the length of your posts to "Op-Ed" pieces or novels...you're on a frikkn' political board fer cryinoutloud...and one found on an NFL website to boot!

    Compare yourself to your fellow members...that is the only valid comparision. After all, you're just another one of us and we're all just another bozo on the bus...like it or not.

    Bottom-line is, there is nothing special about any of us...you & I included.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can say that again.
  4. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where the fu(k do you get off telling anyone to "get over themselves?"

    Get a clue, PR. You go in someone else's thread, specifically written with a request for thought-out, and even long, if necessary, replies... and try to dictate that nobody, ever, write at length. In the process you want to turn it into a personal stump for you to spew your bullcrap about my specific posting style. How ironic... given that the thesis was Twain's quote to the effect that nothing needs reforming so much as other people's habits.

    Don't much care about the distinction myself. If you throw "novel" out there it's going to mean something different to me than to you. I've written them. I've read them. I know what the word means.

    Here's a hint, Mr. Dictator of the Rules of Other's Posting Styles:

    I dictate the rules of others' writing for a living. I'm empowered to do so because of a track record spanning decades. I'll do it at the word, sentence, or paragraph level, and relish in the exercise.

    So I am not particularly enamored of the advice of amateurs, who are opining as an extension of their own threatened egos.

    Think about this, if you want a hint:

    What drives you to attempt to hijack a thread specifically identifying long posts as okay, and requesting thoughtful posts... and trying to yell at the top of your lungs that it's not okay?

    People answered you there, and I'm answering you here, so as not to auto-hijack.

    What so threatens you about the fact that many posters appreciate the opportunity to post and respond at length and in depth? This is also a technically possible use of the board. It's also a desired use of the board, among people other than you. They are capable of reading this sort of post for enjoyment. You, as you so loudly trumpet, are not.

    So go do something you are capable of.

    Nope. I have many friends, many peers, and many people whose impression of my ability with words inform my opinion on this subject.

    I am aware of many uses of many media, and we have seen that the Atlantic Monthly survives even though Twitter exists. BBSs can be used for in-depth pondering or for mindless sniping. Often, I choose the former.

    Get a clue, PR. You may be limited, but that doesn't dictate that the rest of us limit ourselves to what you can most easily process.

    Again, you consider yourself a bozo. I do not. That's my choice. I don't have to be you. I don't have to consider myself a clown. I have a mind, and thoughts, and a stake in outcomes. I choose to express those thoughts very often here. Don't like what I think? Don't read it, and, as our auto-editor says, "please be quiet."

    Bottom line is, speak for yourself.

    PFnV
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have a dental appointment.
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Why not? You started it.


    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One person's verbosity, is another person's brevity...

    Nice thing about this country is there are no limits, if you do not like do not read it and most of all if it bothers you ignore it.. it is that personal choice thing.
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I only read the "novels" when I scan them and see the word "Harry" in them.

    :singing::singing:

    PS
    Also, there's to many big words in them for me.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  9. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Is there a point to this thread :confused3: ... or did someone just open the window and let some air in. :confused2:

    There's way to many threads lately with stale & hot air in them ... :scared:
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  10. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Fifth sentence, bolded. It's a public service to those among us with beautifully smooth and unconvolutued cerebral cortexes. You may register you opinion here, at the kiddies' table, so you don't gum up the grownup threads.


    PFnV
  11. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    If verbosity were $$$ you would be a monetarily wealthy man. :p:p:p

    I don't talk to much both here and in real life ... I'd be in the projects again. :eek:
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The projects were great when they first opened everybody wanted to live in them, now people don't even like to drive by them.
  13. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    Hey I wonder if Harry was even aware that this thread is for off topic drivel when he posted his off topic drivel?

    I'm gonna say no.
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    tdltr

    .....
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    How dare you question the posting style of our resident professa, Dr. Phillip Barbay.

    People are free to write whatever they want, whenever they want, however long they want. That being said, when someone constantly types 1,000 words to give what is more or less a yes or no answer, I'll pass on reading it. If I wanted to read a novel, I'd buy a book.
  16. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    No one cares what your friends thing of you except you.

    "Another bozo on the bus" just infers we're all equal...even you should know that. My point is, YOU are not a special "talented" member any more than anyone else...despite what you think.

    Good to see your aggressive side!
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    But not with you...so butt your arse out!:p
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Interesting response, PR. Is there something about women that threatens you so very badly that your responses to them are so different than are your responses to members of your same sex?

    I can't help but notice that in both this thread and the other you did not respond to Darryl, WIstah, JackBauer, Ilikehappyppl or anyone else who told you the same thing that I did - that you were more-or-less out of line in your bossiness - by telling them their defense of MrP's posts were "very sad," or to "butt their arses out," of the thread.

    Like you said, we're all equals here, remember?

    Or do you just mean the men?

    Oh, and just so you know - I'm unimpressed with your little pink smiley face. It doesn't mean "I'm kidding," it means you're afraid someone's going to call you on your bu!!crap and you want a handy defense. Little friendly icons don't mean diddly when the words they accompany are anything but.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Actually, that's not true, PR. Not of MrP or of anyone else, for that matter.

    I presume, because you work in the vitamin industry that if I want to know something about marketing vitamins, I'd want to talk to you rather than to anyone else here. You often tell us about your skills in marketing and research and economics due to those things being your livelihood.

    If I wanted to know about renting apartments to low income families, I'd look up RealWorld. If I wanted to know about the corrections system, I'd ask Darryl. People have sent me PMs about emergency medicine because they know I've worked closely in the system. I'd presume I'd be far more acquainted with the back of an ambulance than you would be and I'd hardly think you'd disagree with me on that. If I have a question about social programs for alcoholics I'd ask Patters. If I have a question about dental forensics, I'd ask PatsFanInPhilly. I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the picture.

    Mr.P is a writer and an editor - he writes and edits for a living - therefore he would know a bit more about it than any of us who do not do the same thing.

    Unless, of course, you think that I know every bit as much about the marketing and sales of vitamins as you do and that there is not one thing about what you do for a living that you could possibly tell anyone who does not do the same thing you do.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  20. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Shut your festering gob, you teet! Your type makes me puke! You vacuous, toffee nosed maloderous pervert!!!

    Oh, you came for an arguement? This is abuse. Arguements are next door.

    :D

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