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Ventrone injury and poor KO coverage

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Mark Morse, Nov 19, 2008.

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  1. Mark Morse

    Mark Morse PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #15 Jersey

    Lost in all the excitement of Thursday nights game was Ray Ventrone getting his bell wrung on the opening kickoff. He was gone for the remainder of the game (no mention of him missing practice yesterday). How much of an impact do you think this had on the poor play of the KO coverage special team? With all the injuries, we are having more players see time on ST and significant time on the field as well.
     
  2. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I was wondering if, on the KR TD, there was somebody out of place that didn't normally play on the kick team. I'd say its a definite possibility. BB has guys that specifically play special teams, and if they get hurt the dropoff is probably similar to an offensive or defensive starter going out.
     
  3. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    I was curious about this as well. This being a tough loss I wont get to the film because it frustrates me to much. I was wondering if the KO returned for a TD was run through Ventrone's area? or any of the other good returns?
     
  4. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm not sure that it matters, IMO. Special Teams didn't look that good against the Bills either the week before. We came real close to giving up a kick return for a TD in that game too.
     
  5. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Washington said they put Smith in place of Ventrone, and that put other players in different positions, and that caused the breakdown.
     
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bubba's loss was just another in a series of hits Special Teams has taken as the injuries to the team mount up. You have to wonder if the shortened week didn't affect Special Teams more...with shortened practice time, BB may have scheduled fewer practice reps for Special teams.

    On the bright side, having an extra day to practice this week suggests Seeley will have the problem fixed for the Miami game.
     
  7. signbabybrady

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    Buffalo probably has the best STs in the league. I thought they did well vs them which made last weeks breakdowns that much more shocking. How do you play well vs the best and than come out the following week and suck so bad. Not that the Jets don't have good STs too.
     
  8. PatsWickedPissah

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    Disable Jersey

    Fess up Markey Mark. Your Ventrone cheerleading is a transparent attempt to score big with Mrs B, isn't it?
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Was that a helmet to helmet hit? It sure looked like it.
     
  10. Jimke

    Jimke In the Starting Line-Up

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    The kick coverage has not been up to snuff since the very

    first preseason season.
     
  11. signbabybrady

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    I dont agree with that. They sucked Vs the Jets sure but I don't remeber to many other big returns this year.

    Any Stats to back it up?
     
  12. wdkantro2

    wdkantro2 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Ventrone is great at getting down the field first and blowing up a few blockers, which disrupts the entire return. There was absolutely no disruption on the rest of the kickoffs...the Jets were in position, able to set and hold blocks, which is a brutal combination if you are the coverage team.
     
  13. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    Partially correct. After the first kickoff, they put in LeKevin Smith and Heath Evans for Ray Ventrone and Mike Richardson. Both were interior guys on the left side of the kickoff line; the Leon Washington TD was returned on the Pats' right.

    When the Pats kicked the ball to a side of the field, they put 6 on the short side and 4 on the long side. On the TD return the wide side was, from center to boundary: Sam Aiken, Jason Wilhite, Kelley Washington. Larry Izzo was the safety on that side.

    The Jets were running a kind of double-wedge shell where the front line would retreat to 30 yards and set up for contact in front of the wedge. It is more common for the frontline to retreat to the same or shorter distance, make a V-turn and try and pick up angle blocks while moving across the field, steering bodies away from the wedge.

    It was a smart move for the Jets to do it this way because the Pats defensive players have a bias for gap-control over penetration. The moving angle blocks are useful for keeping fast, penetrating players from demolishing the wedge. The flat contact blocks of the Jets' front line tended to cause the Pats players to seek their contact and try to "control" the gaps in that line. Then the wedge, which was moving at speed behind this, could blow out a hole in the stationary coverage unit and Leon Washington could make his cut and go. Jets got a good return on the first kickoff just because of these facts.

    On the touchdown return, Wilhite got so tentative trying to read the blocking that he ended up playing the same position as Larry Izzo, the backside safety. He, Izzo and Aiken, who got double-teamed by the contact guys because the Jets didn't have to block Wilhite, all wound up in the same position on the shortside hash at the 30. Washington, the contain guy, was 8 yards downfield on the same hash. That left an 8-yard hole for Leon Washington to run through.

    Most of the wedge blocked right, picking up the Pats overload, one Jet linebacker got a chip on Wilhite, who was trying to close the hole, and Leon Washington simply cut backside across both hashes, and ran away from the Pats pursuit. Because every Pat was on the shortside hash or beyond, once Washington crossed the hashes the only Pat with any kind of angle on him was Gostkowski at the 35.

    Primary fault on the play was Wilhite, followed by Izzo. Izzo simply lost his leverage on the play, Wilhite didn't accomplish anything constructive. Minor demerits to everyone because nobody got effective penetration, closest we got to Leon Washington was James Sanders, who bounced off a stiff block.

    Neither of the two replacements on the strong side materially affected the coverage's failure. In fact, Ventrone's replacement, Smith, did a decent job busting the wedge.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2008
  14. nashvillepatsfan

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    Thanks for the breakdown. I actually havent had time to watch it again. I was quoting what my dad was telling me on the phone when I was reading this thread to him. Im sure he'll be posting in the morning about how I misquoted him. He is afterall, the worlds foremost authority on how to be a Pats GM...in his own mind.lol. :D
     
  15. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Great analysis...I thought Sanders had a good shot at him, but it really seemed that once he got to the left, the only Patriot near was Gost and he made a good attempt at a tackle, but....he's not at all the guy you want to seee there.
     
  16. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    It did on the replay I thought...Ihedigbo seemed to drop his hemet...BUT...this is teh Jets./Pats...no fine..why you think Goodell would DARE say a thing about a Jet hard hit..even though it was helmet to helmet??
     
  17. Jimke

    Jimke In the Starting Line-Up

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    The Ram's game opened with a 75 yard kickoff return but a penalty

    returned the ball to the Ram's 41. A couple of weeks later, in the

    4th quarter, the Bills had a 85 yard kickoff return which set up a

    touchdown. The Pats are fortunate that they have a kicker who

    puts the ball in the end zone much of the time.
     
  18. Shoofyou10

    Shoofyou10 Rookie

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    Thats exactally right. One thing Bubba is great at is getting down there and busting up the wedge to allow more guys to come in unblocked and make the stop. Even if the return wasnt his side it still made a difference that he wasnt it there.
     
  19. sieglo

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    Damn. :youtheman:
     
  20. Leave No Doubt

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    Good point Box :) These extra days really are a blessing for these guys right about now.
     
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