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US Soilder tells Reid that we are winning!

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by FreeTedWilliams, Apr 23, 2007.

  1. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm

    Some interesting points, seems to me, that maybe, we are not really getting the true picture of Iraq. DO you think that the media might slant a story to fit thier liberal agenda, no they would never do that.
  2. Real World

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  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  4. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Do you think the Administration might do the same, or are hidden agendas solely the territory of the media?
  5. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I found it very upsetting to hear what Harry Ried had said. To think that we have troops actively fighting a war, and the leader of the Senate annouces we've "lost". That's disturbing.

    Senator Lieberman's Statement on Majority Leader Reid's Comment that the Iraq War is "Lost"

    WASHINGTON - Senator Joe Lieberman (ID-CT) today made the following statement in response to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's comment that the Iraq War is "lost:"

    "This week witnessed horrific terrorist attacks by Islamist extremists in Iraq, killing hundreds of innocent civilians and leading Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to declare that the war is 'lost.'

    With all due respect, I strongly disagree. Senator Reid's statement is not based on military facts on the ground in Iraq and does not advance our cause there.

    Al Qaeda's strategy for victory in Iraq is clear. They are trying to murder as many innocent civilians as possible in an effort to reignite sectarian fighting and drive us to retreat from Iraq.

    The question now before us is whether we respond to these terrorist attacks by running away as Al Qaeda hopes - abandoning the future of Iraq, the Middle East, and ultimately our own security to the very same people responsible for this week's atrocities - or whether we stand united to fight them.

    This is exactly the wrong time to conclude that we have lost the war in Iraq, or that our new strategy has failed. Instead, we should provide General Petraeus and his troops with the time and the resources to succeed. We should not surrender in the face of barbarism."

    http://lieberman.senate.gov/newsroom/release.cfm?id=272753
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2007
  6. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    .
    .
    .

    Doesn't anyone remember Neville Chamberlain?? He said Hitler and the Nazis were "not a problem for us" (England and the world) and, anyway, Hitler was "unstoppable".

    Was he right?? Should we have followed his advice??


    //
  7. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    We're not fighting Hitler. And I don't mean rhetorically, I mean quite literally we are not fighting Adolph Hitler. Already that sets off alarm bells that this situation might be different from that situation and needs its own consideration. Chamberlain was wrong in that case, but sometimes the Chamberlains of the world turn out to be right.
  8. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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  9. mr3putt

    mr3putt Rookie

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    Neville Chamberlain?

    Cmon Foggster wake up

    My sources come from the 82nd airborne in Iraq and Centcom in Tampa.

    US casualties are up
    Parlamaint in the Green Zone bombed.
    US command says thay will not guarantee safety of members IN THE GREEN ZONE.
    Iraqi's leaving their own country by the thousands.
    Shiit's abandon government.
    Public protests for US to leave.

    With all due respect to that Marine and the Drudge Report.......

    This war is civil...and it is lost.....period!!!!!!!!!
  10. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    Much like the notion that the Vietnam War was a lost cause after the Tet Offensive (thanks to Walter Kronkite) despite the fact that Tet pretty much broke the VC's back and was a military disaster for North Vietnam. The NVA learned that they could win this war politically thanks to the anti-war left and their puppets the media. Same rings true today for Al-Qaeda in Iraq as all they need do now is fight a war of attrition and as long as we're spineless and lilly livered without the will to fight, they'll sit and wait and then wreak havoc once we've left Iraq.
  11. mr3putt

    mr3putt Rookie

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    Thank God most of the military learned their lessons from Viet Nam.

    It was not the "liberal Left" media that lost that war. It was Westmoreland's complete ignorance of Giap's tactics that lost the war. That and the continued biased assessment reported to the American people resulting in a change in attitude after Tet.

    We were supporting a corrupt regime in Viet Nam...Iraq....Yup
    The enemy refused to engage in large numbers and waited in ambush...Iraq...yup
    4 plus years of casualties with no end in site...Iraq...Yup
    General "Stonewall" Petreus looking less than precient....
    Iraqi people abandoning their country and the "Democracy" so highly touted as the goal by the Neocons.

    It is indeed Viet Nam revisited...sand instead of jungle..but it is the same.
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    According to Gaip it was the antiwar left in AMerica that won the war for the commies.

    I guess he would have first hand knowledge of that.
  13. mr3putt

    mr3putt Rookie

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    It was the LBJ/MacNamara body counts and overly optimistic assessments that convinced the public to continue support. Tet demonstrated that there was no control...no progress...only more and more casualties ahead. Left wing media simply reported the FACTS. The majority of the American people judged their strategy worthless and weak. "Domino Theory" anyone?

    History will do the same to King George. Just a matter of time now. Clock is ticking and the reign of the Neocons will mercifully end soon enough.
  14. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    1997

    Sleeping with the Enemy

    By James Webb

    It is difficult to explain to my children that in my teens and early twenties the most frequently heard voices of my peers were trying to destroy the foundations of American society, so that it might be rebuilt according to their own narcissistic notions. In retrospect it’s hard even for some of us who went through those times to understand how highly educated people—most of them spawned from the comforts of the upper-middle class—could have seriously advanced the destructive ideas that were in the air during the late ’60s and early ’70s. Even Congress was influenced by the virus.

    After President Nixon resigned in August of 1974, that fall’s congressional elections brought 76 new Democrats to the House, and eight to the Senate. A preponderance of these freshmen had run on McGovernesque platforms. Many had been viewed as weak candidates before Nixon’s resignation, and some were glaringly unqualified, such as then-26-year-old Tom Downey of New York, who had never really held a job in his life and was still living at home with his mother.

    This so-called Watergate Congress rode into town with an overriding mission that had become the rallying point of the American Left: to end all American assistance in any form to the besieged government of South Vietnam. Make no mistake—this was not the cry of a few years earlier to stop young Americans from dying. It had been two years since the last American soldiers left Vietnam, and fully four years since the last serious American casualty calls there.

    For reasons that escape historical justification, even after America’s military withdrawal the Left continued to try to bring down the incipient South Vietnamese democracy. Future White House aide Harold Ickes and others at "Project Pursestrings"—assisted at one point by an ambitious young Bill Clinton—worked to cut off all congressional funding intended to help the South Vietnamese defend themselves. The Indochina Peace Coalition, run by David Dellinger and headlined by Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, coordinated closely with Hanoi throughout 1973 and 1974, and barnstormed across America’s campuses, rallying students to the supposed evils of the South Vietnamese government. Congressional allies repeatedly added amendments to spending bills to end U.S. support of Vietnamese anti-Communists, precluding even air strikes to help South Vietnamese soldiers under attack by North Vietnamese units that were assisted by Soviet-bloc forces.

    Then in early 1975 the Watergate Congress dealt non-Communist Indochina the final blow. The new Congress icily resisted President Gerald Ford’s January request for additional military aid to South Vietnam and Cambodia. This appropriation would have provided the beleaguered Cambodian and South Vietnamese militaries with ammunition, spare parts, and tactical weapons needed to continue their own defense. Despite the fact that the 1973 Paris Peace Accords called specifically for "unlimited military replacement aid" for South Vietnam, by March the House Democratic Caucus voted overwhelmingly, 189-49, against any additional military assistance to Vietnam or Cambodia.

    The rhetoric of the antiwar Left during these debates was filled with condemnation of America’s war-torn allies, and promises of a better life for them under the Communism that was sure to follow. Then-Congressman Christopher Dodd typified the hopeless naiveté of his peers when he intoned that "calling the Lon Nol regime an ally is to debase the word.... The greatest gift our country can give to the Cambodian people is peace, not guns. And the best way to accomplish that goal is by ending military aid now." Tom Downey, having become a foreign policy expert in the two months since being freed from his mother’s apron strings, pooh-poohed the coming Cambodian holocaust that would kill more than one-third of the country’s population, saying, "The administration has warned that if we leave there will be a bloodbath. But to warn of a new bloodbath is no justification for extending the current bloodbath."



    Read the rest here:


    http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleid.16181/article_detail.asp
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is a soldier with a different view...

    http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/309485032.html

    I'm having the worst damn week of my whole damn life so I'm going to write this while I'm pissed off enough to do it right.

    I am SICK of all this bull**** people are writing about the Iraq war. I am abso-*******-lutely sick to death of it. What the **** do most of you know about it? You watch it on TV and read the commentaries in the newspaper or Newsweek or whatever god damn yuppie news rag you subscribe to and think you're all such ******* experts that you can scream at each other like five year old about whether you're right or not. Let me tell you something: unless you've been there, you don't know a god damn thing about it. It you haven't been shot at in that ******* hell hole, SHUT THE **** UP!

    How do I dare say this to you moronic war supporters who are "Supporting our Troops" and waving the flag and all that happy horse ****? I'll tell you why. I'm a Marine and I served my tour in Iraq. My husband, also a Marine, served several. I left the service six months ago because I got pregnant while he was home on leave and three days ago I get a visit from two men in uniform who hand me a letter and tell me my husband died in that ******* festering sand-pit. He should have been home a month ago but they extended his tour and now he's coming home in a box.

    You fuckers and that god-damn lying sack of **** they call a president are the reason my husband will never see his baby and my kid will never meet his dad.

    And you know what the most fucked up thing about this Iraq **** is? They don't want us there. They're not happy we came and they want us out NOW. We fucked up their lives even worse than they already were and they're pissed off. We didn't help them and we're not helping them now. That's what our soldiers are dying for.
  16. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    First I'd like to say that I'm amazed that there's actually people out there who think that the one big flaw in our plan for Vietnam was that we stopped. That's got to be nothing more than a message board thing right?

    Why is it that the expression "I'm from the government and I'm here to help," elicits so much laughter and knowing winks from the people who support a continuation of the status quo in Iraq? What is it about our government that makes you think its so inept at solving internal problems yet so effective at solving external ones?
  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Thanks for posting this, Real. It's a genuine public service. Especially the young generation of today need to know this.

    I clearly remember the spring of 1975. It was the turning point of my life, when I decided that though my nation had failed those in need in Southeast Asia, I vowed I would do my best to never allow the same thing to happen again.

    //
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The poster is anonymous,as opposed to the blogs cited by RW, BTW if her Dad was in Nam and felt ripped off why would she volunteer?

    The post comes from SF and I think it is BS, there are families of dead servicemen who are bitter (see C Sheehan, but IMO this particular post is BS. If the poster were real she wouldn't care about her identity being known.
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    The chickenhawks spread their wings and craw about how our young men - NOT THEM - should sacrifice their lives for the sake of some ambiguous cause or theory of geopolitics that has more to do with the "freedom" of another people and nothing to do with the freedom and safety of the US. What makes it worse this time around is that the people we're defending are not interested in helping us fight, let alone fighting for themselves.

    Never fought in a war? Haven't fought in a war for decades? No problem... We can cheerlead from the sidelines and throw the bodies of other people's kids into the meat grinder. YEE-HHAH!
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    More inane analogies to WWII to justify a stupid error by our barely sentient president. Thanks...that really brings the meaning of Iraq into clear focus.
  21. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    The sad thing is, and a lot of the blogs I follow point them out, that there are alot of people out there who aren't soldiers, or who are soldiers but have never been to Iraq, who voice opinion like that. The woman in the NYT article is an example of that. I'd hope that no one would stoop to that level, and it very well could be a legitimate post, but it is annonymous, so take it with a grain of salt I guess.
  22. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Last I checked we had an all volunteer Army. We also have a volunteer Fire Department, so do you fight fires or does someone else fight them for you? Arrest anyone lately or do you leave that to the people who joined the police force? Where I totally understand what your point is, simply saying join and fight or STFU, doesn't totally apply. I don't want to sound insincere, as I understand, and am completely grateful for the sacrafices those soldiers are making. I'd have prefered they never meant in the first place, but they did, and that's what I base my support on.
  23. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Bad analogy.
    Fires happen usually due to accident or crime. There's no government agency going around lighting fires so the fire fighters can have something to do. There's no one going around assaulting people or breaking into stores at night to keep the cops busy (the road details are another issue). These guys respond to emergencies on a regular basis. None of it is manufactured by men for nefarious reasons.

    And I didn't say join and fight or STFU (although I would agree with that,) because everyone has a right to say what they want. I just like to point out instances of cowardice and hypocracy. War cheerleaders like Coulter, Clinton, Hannity, Bush, and Cheney make me sick beyond belief.
  24. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Bad analogy.
    Fires happen usually due to accident or crime. There's no government agency going around lighting fires so the fire fighters can have something to do. There's no one going around assaulting people or breaking into stores at night to keep the cops busy (the road details are another issue). These guys respond to emergencies on a regular basis. None of it is manufactured by men for nefarious reasons.

    And I didn't say join and fight or STFU (although I would agree with that,) because everyone has a right to say what they want. I just like to point out instances of cowardice and hypocracy. War cheerleaders like Coulter, Clinton, Hannity, Bush, and Cheney make me sick beyond belief.
  25. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Triple BINGO for this. You nailed it, TF.

    The U.S. must never again abandon a people to armed insurgents, terrorists, or whatever they are called. Even if it's a "civil war", the U.S. is duty-bound to make that a fair and peaceful government is established in Iraq. Otherwise, we will face the consequences of cutting and running.

    Doesn't mean the solution is military; actually and fundamentally, the solution is NOT a military one. The solution is to create a unified nation out of three distinctly separate groups: Sunnis, Shi'a, and Kurds. We have to make it work organizationally, somehow, or we will see the painful results in the States.


    //
  26. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Rah! Rah! Rah!
    Yeaaaaaaay TEAM!
    Go team! GO!
  27. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I totally see what you are saying , but I don't think the analogy is a bad one. Is it exactly the same, fighting a war and fighting crime? Of course not, but the basic principles apply. Where one could totally argue that Iraq is/was manufactured, others also feel that it is the fight of our generation. I know you don't see it that way, and am only pointing out that for some, it is. Remember, and I know you hate comparing this war to WW II, but the public felt as you do about Iraq back then.
  28. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    ARRRGH!
    Et Tu, RW?

    Did they feel that way five years after Pearl?
    Look! Now you have me doing it!
    Damn you!
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2007
  29. mr3putt

    mr3putt Rookie

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    Dead wrong Turd and Fogster.

    What consequence did the US suffer from leaving Viet Nam again?
    Where's the Domino Effect boys??????????? Were you old enough to remember that slop?

    Bush just initiated a trade agreement with them!!!!

    You are blind not to see the impact of the religious element in Iraq completely negating any attempt to create your precious Democracy.

    RW....who is the source of this wisdom from the 70's?
    Sorry...I was there and don't buy a bit of that revisionist tripe Big Guy :eek:
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2007
  30. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Back to this...
    It IS a bad analogy,...sorry.
    What principles are you talking about other than the volunteer thing? That could go for every job other than prison cook. Using one principle to compare such complicated things is like saying seaweed is the same as an oak tree because they're both plants.

    Anyone who feels Iraq is the "fight of our generation" usually comes from the POV that every generation needs to have a "fight of their generation", which is complete nonsense. Thats what the war pigs and the weapons builders want us to believe. Otherwise their armies will get bored and their toys will rust.

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