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"US needs to break from stimulating economy" - CNN Money

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Wow!

    I was pleasantly surprised to read this article knowing it came from CNN. I agree 100% with their opinion piece on this topic.

    Keep up the good work CNN!

    The U.S. economy needs to break its stimulus habit

    The U.S. economy needs to break its stimulus habit - Term Sheet

    "Like its chemical analog (caffiene), an economic stimulus is a temporary jolt aimed at helping the economy over a rough patch, with the cost of the jolt paid for out of normal-times incomes. Unfortunately, like Paul, the U.S. has been taking economic stimuli every quarter for a decade, pretending that a sequence of temporary jolts is the same thing as economic growth. But true per-capita economic growth is the outcome of productivity-increasing innovation. You cannot engineer true economic growth by fiddling with fiscal or monetary policy or by financing excess consumption with shaky loans."
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  2. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    What is the solution? As the author stated this stuff has been going on for the last 10 years.
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good article generally I would have not viewed tax cuts as a stimulant per say since as a rule lower marginal rates (including deductions in the tax code) lead to higher economic growth as shown by Freidman and others.
  4. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    Again, for the umpteenth time, lower taxes do not necessarily correspond to higher growth.
  5. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Question for the Conservatives here:

    What would you do to get the economy going?
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Differentiate between marginal tax rates (factoring in deductions) and taxes. Government is ultimately overhead while some is necessary, if say government consumes 100% of GDP is that too much?

    The question is how much government at all level should consume as a % of GDP. 20% seems a reasonable. Depending on the State the figure is getting close to 50% which is why the economy is such a mess.
  7. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Allow people to make free decisions about what their wants and needs are, and how they are best met by their own decisions.

    It is not my job as a government to dictate wants and needs, and therefore direct the economy.

    If the nature of the cycle is that the economy is slowing down because people are saving and not spending so much, then that is the people changing society, and that's a good thing, perhaps we don't need constant growth and spending...

    Maybe we are done Keeping up with the Joneses.

    I know I am.
  8. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    That is all well and good but how about some details? Like it or not our elected officials make laws. Not me or you.
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I'm not a conservative, but I believe our gov't should do very little FINANCIALLY to drive our economy. It's not the role of gov't to fix our economy by using our tax dollars to artificially inflate it.

    In all honesty, there is very little anyone or any group can do to change the direction of our economy. Just look at Japan over the past 20 years. They've tried every form of gov't stimulus known with zippo for long-term results.

    Even cutting corp. taxes won't change the direction of our economy if consumers;

    a. Aren't willing to spend
    b. Can't increase their spending due to debt/deleveraging constraints
    c. Are unemployed
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Get rid of many of the regulations preventing Energy development, from multiple sources. EPA regulations on CO2 for example.

    Phase out Ethanol subsidies (used food for eating not burned as fuel)

    Go to a Flat tax ~17% eliminate all deductions other than personal deduction (same for children and adults)

    Eliminate all corp taxes, tax capital gains of share holders at the same 17% as other income. This eliminates the 200B -400B + in tax compliance paid by corps. This would encourage business to invest and conduct business in the US. Businesses do not pay taxes they collect taxes and pas the cost onto the consumer.

    Reform the entitlement system means testing + start privatizing the systems for the young (give the 50+ crew the option to stay with the current system). For the Federal health care system move towards Medical Savings Accounts (especially for the young) remove existing barriers for selling health insurance across state lines. Eliminate Federal requirement for services that have to be in plans leave when services to get to the consumers.

    Eliminate a number of government agencies that aren't essential to reduce spending.

    Get the government out of Frannie & Freddie get rid of the distortions created by the government in the real estate market.

    Enforce immigration laws remove people who break the law asap. When this is accomplished expand the number of people who can enter the country legally.


    Eliminate most overseas military installations.

    I think this blog post my J Stossel makes a lot of sense in terms of spending:

    Take A Chainsaw To The Budget - Stossel's Take Blog - FoxBusiness.com

    Some of the above would need to be phased in because they are significant. The end result would be a much healthier country.
  11. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Stop making laws... Elected Officials are in fact doing their job when they don't pass new legislation just as much as they are when thye are passing legislation.

    #1 Detail - Implement a Sales Tax
    #2 Detail - End the IRS
    #3 Detail - End as much regulation as possible.
  12. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    We must implement a no frills Tax system.

    Our Tax system allows our elected officials to hand out tax breaks and tax laws specific for industry and friends, and it must stop.

    The tax code should be nothing but a % on all sold goods... ALL SOLD goods, I don't care if something is a neccessity... pay the tax on it... It's a small percentage in the price, pay it... it's tax.

    Done.

    Remove the corruption, simplify the tax code, watch the economy FLY!
  13. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    #1 Detail: A Federal Sales Tax (VAT)?
    #2 Detail: Even if you want a VAT, the IRS will still be needed.
    #3 Detail: What regulations would you get rid of*?

    *I kind of like drinking clean water, eating food that is safe, and not working for $2 an hour.
  14. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    You like drinking clean water, and safe food... Yet rely on the government has summer headlines of ecoli contaminated food EVERY year.

    the FDA does not STOP bad food, they only clean up the issue to ensure the people do not lose faith in the system, and you go back to buying into the argo-business complex of mass food production which is a far cry from the quality you think you are getting.

    You faith in the Government is sad when every year we hear of issues that are supposed to be prevented with government oversight.

    No one is forcing you to work for 2.00 an hour... Are you worth more, prove it, I see no reason why the government needs to force me to pay a certain level. I want to pay what the market will bare... No one ever forces you to work for 2.00 an hour... you could find more than $2 an hour simply by scavenging.
  15. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Not sure how to answer you. The FDA can't be at every slaughterhouse in the Country. Without the FDA what would happen when ecoli tainted meat/chicken/fish landed at our local supermarkets? Would the Company(s) who produced that stuff recall it? I doubt it.

    No one is forcing me to work for $2 an hour. Do you really think the WalMarts, Targets, and Best Buys would pay people more than $2 an hour if they could?

    You were in West Virginia right? That is one of the most polluted states in the Country. Without regulations you would probably be on your way to an early grave.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  16. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Do you think anyone would show up to work there for that rate of pay?
  17. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    If mcgraw_wv gets his way they will have to.
  18. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    If the company wanted to make money and stay in business it would. Honestly, the people would probably expect higher standards if they stopped relying on the government, and conditions would likely rise. Yet the fallacy of relying on a government approved stamped, giving you the false sense of security, and this strategy has worked, until you eat a peanut which should have been recalled...

    The point of the FDA primary falls on the fact that if the FDA can't STOP contaimination, what do they do? and what does our tax go to? It goes to a government agency which can block individuals from suing the agro business, and it provides the illusion of accountability and safety to the public. We are paying to ensure there is no accountability in our food industry.

    If people are willing to work for that Rate, more power to them, no one is putting guns to their heads and forcing them to work for that rate. If their circumstance ( bills / Debt / etc.. ) makes them feel that's their only choice, then that is not the fault of the employer is it?

    Actually... It's government regulation which ALLOWS pollution, and companies to pollute X% within government levels... In my world view, if you pollute my air, my land, and my water... it's property destruction and they could be sued. But becuase of government, they come in to protect business from the people, allow them to destroy other property by polluting the land, and water, and air, and there is nothing people can do about it because the government is protecting big business.

    Government is setup to protect profits, not people.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  19. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Never, my way is 100% freedom... No one is ever forced to take a job no matter the pay...

    100% anti-Slavery.
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    2 questions: what sales tax level do you think is appropriate and what would that produce for tax revenue? what is the rationale for a sales tax versus an income (or wealth) tax?

    btw, not sure about the end to corruption -- don't you think people will go out of their way to avoid paying sales tax?
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011

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