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US has very little leverge over Russia

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting to see how Russia's incursions into Georgia are playing out. First the US uses lies and forgeries to justify invading Iraq. As a result, we take out Iran's biggest regional enemy, and Iran can devote its resources to developing nuclear weapons. As a result, "the U.S. appears to have little leverage over Russia, however, in part because the Bush administration needs Russian cooperation in its negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program."

    Meanwhile, our own lunatic, Vice President Cheney, is making his own threats by saying that "Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States."

    Add to that, this worry: "Besides backing its Georgian allies, the U.S. is closely watching the conflict because of Georgia's status as a major conduit of oil to Black Sea ports. Any disruption to Georgia's main pipeline could send world oil prices soaring again, and in turn kick up the price of gas at U.S. pumps. So far, the pipeline has been untouched."

    The Republicans have effectively emasculated the US. We're bogged down in Afghanistan. We can't even get Osama. Baghdad is stable thanks to the surge, but Iraq in general is still a mess, and unlikely to become a reliable ally of the US. It's a shame how little influence we had, when you consider that from Reagan to Clinton we had enormous influence even over giants like Russia.

    Source for quotes: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5555394&page=1
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  2. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    tell that the FreeTEdWilliams when I said "watch the price of oil go up"

    things could only decrease for a while until someone longed for the lust of power and greed.
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    You better hope the price of oil doesn't go up Patters, cuz if it does, it benefits McLame, and hurts Obama.

    Why is the Russian war with Georgia a US problem? Why is it not a UN, or world problem?
     
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It's not our problem. Last I checked the prevailing opinion is we should stop interfering with the world all the time. Alright then. That ends our involvement. Why would we be talking about leverage when we can just shrug ?
     
  5. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I would say it's a European problem and Nato problem. The UN is pretty ineffective.
     
  6. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    The world will make it our problem, unfortunately.
     
  7. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Its times like these that I wish we had a president that wasn't a fukcing MORON, and a VP that wasn't a fukcing WAR MONGERER....

    knowing those things....I would go 'all-in' on this not turning out well....

    We have no moral ground to stand on as far as taking a stance on invasion (Thanks Bush/Cheney)...thanks to Georgia sending 2,000 troops to the Iraqi war, we are obligated to stand up for them as they stood up for our administration. Thanks Coalition of the willing....



    If my vision of this stands true...this is the beginning of the "death phase" of WW3 that already started.






    Ahhhhhh....FORGET ABOUT IT..... LOOOK John Edwards had an affair.....LOOK AT THAT!
     
  8. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    “I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings and in cars. It’s impossible to count them now. There's hardly a single building left undamaged.” Lyudmila Ostayeva, resident of Tskhinvali, South Ossetia

    Washington's bloody fingerprints are all over the invasion of South Ossetia. Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili would never dream of launching a massive military attack unless he got explicit orders from his bosses at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. After all, Saakashvili owes his entire political career to American power-brokers and US intelligence agencies. If he disobeyed them, he'd be gone in a fortnight. Besides an operation like this takes months of planning and logistical support; especially if it's perfectly timed to coincide with the beginning of the Olympic games. (another petty neocon touch) That means Pentagon planners must have been working hand in hand with Georgian generals for months in advance. Nothing was left to chance.


    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9791
     
  9. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I was thinking the same thing. Russia want to become a superpower again
     
  10. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's difficult to see where our moral authority would come from to tell Russia to stand down, given our last five years' behavior; we can hardly complain about a "manufactured pretext" given the lies we told about Iraq just for the sole purpose of invading.

    It's not like we can economically muscle many people any more.

    Our big concern there is the natural gas throughput from... oh yeah, Russia.

    And in terms of military muscle, ours is spread thin enough that the guards and reserves are in play for multiple tours.

    Thanks for making America "strong," Republicans.

    PFnV
     
  11. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Vladimir Vasilyev, the Chairman of Russia's State Duma Security Committee, summed up the feelings of many Russians like this: "The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. In essence, the Americans have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals."
     
  12. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9791

    Putin has played his cards very wisely, which makes it look like the fighting in South Ossetia may be Washington's way of trying to win through military force what they could not achieve via the free market.

    On Saturday, President Bush issued this statement from Beijing: "We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a stand-down by all troops. We call for an end to the Russian bombings and a return by the parties to the status quo of August 6th."

    That was it. Bush then quickly returned to the Olympic festivities. He was last spotted at a photo op with the US girls volleyball team jumping up and down on the beach-sand in his wingtips. The pretense that Bush is leading the country has seemingly been abandoned altogether. Cheney is in charge now.


    and thats not the spookiest part of this article:













    Putin needs to carefully weigh his options. Then, on Monday, he should announce that Russia will sell all $50 billion of its Fannie Mae mortgage-backed bonds, all of it US dollar-backed assets, and will accept only rubles and euros in the future sale of Russian oil and natural gas. Just watch as the dollar crashes and the Dow Jones goes into a death-spiral. Why use a blunderbuss when a flyswatter will do just fine.




    THAT is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm still wondering why this is a US problem? Even if we weren't in Iraq, we would never involve ourselves military against this Russian aggression.
     
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    So would you want us to do something or not ? I can never understand Liberals, I think it's because they have to go and check their party's marching orders first.
     
  15. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    Georgia didn't wake up on Thursday and say..."Hey...we are going to war today...with Russia"... This involves months of planning and troop movement etc. This has been in motion for a while.

    you need to read that article. Its no mistake this happened while the world was focused on the Olympics.

    This is a US problem because we gave the green light for an invasion....knowing what the Russian response would be.

    This was not Russian agression, it was a Georgian power grab done with US approval. The US, and Georgian officials KNEW the Russian armed forces were 20 time sthe size of the Georgian forces. This will be a bloodbath if it stays on the present course. The fact that we are flying their 2,000 troops from Iraq to Georgia to fight this tells you all you need to know about whose side our leaders are on.
     
  16. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Ah Patters, its gets better all the time with you. When, exactly did we have such enormous influence over the Russians? The only influence we've had over them was the threat of nuclear annihilation, and even that only had minimal influence on their foreign policy decisions. They were also more willing to listen when we were supporting their transition from Communism and basically propping up their new system. I do like to see you pining for the days of Reagan however, good to see you're learning.:D The fact is that nobody is going to have influence over Putin except for the old threat of MAD. Even if we had never gone into Iraq, even if we had invaded Afghanistan, killed OBL in a week and left them with a new gov't and zero violence, we'd still have these same problems with Russia, because Putin is backsliding to authoritarian rule, and he knows that since the end of the cold war the rest of the free world has drifted away from being aligned in the fight against communism, and nobody has the stomach for it anymore.

    Now the Iran issue. So by us crippling a country that was an enemy of Iran and would ostensibly want to build and use WMDs against Iran we actually spurred Iran to produce their own WMDs? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially when you consider that according to international review Iran's nuclear program was most active BEFORE 2002, and they supposedly halted their program in 2002, coincident with the US invasion of Iraq. Russia's role in talks with Iran won't play heavily into our decision making, largely because Russia hasn't helped a damn bit! They've publicly supported Iran, and even went so far as to make threats of retaliation if there is any military action against Iran.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    yeah.....

    somehow.....Liberals get 'talking points e-mails' so we can stay 'on message' .... yeah....

    lets stay "ON MESSAGE" about this very important topic, instead of pointing elsewhere, and drowning out the important info with finger pointing and three finger politics that you conservatives seem to do like the frickin wizard of Oz....




    By fighting about liberalism and conservativism.....finger pointing, and attempring to spin a story to stay on message we are ALL missing what is important here.


    Its a powergrab for resources, and an attempt by the elite to reduce the population by global conflict. PLEASE don't be swayed by the bull$h!t that supposidly makes a liberal a liberal or a conservative a conservative. Our one finger should be pointing ath this entire region and also be concerned about the three fingers pointing back at ourselves, infighting.

    we are getting dumber and dumberer....
     
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It's none of our business. Russia, Georgia, whatever. Let them fight it out - and let us know when it's over.
     
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    do you feel the same about Israel and Iran?
     
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's a little different as it would likely involve nuclear weapons which has a more direct effect on us and also would have a dramatic effect on oil availability and prices which, again, directly affects us.
     

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