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US Credit Rating DOWNGRADED

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DropKickFlutie, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Credit rating agency Standard & Poor's on Friday downgraded the credit rating of the United States, stripping the world's largest economy of its prized AAA status.

    S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating - Aug. 5, 2011
     
  2. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They wanted to see a grand bargain, and they didn't. They wanted to see maturity in getting there, and they saw hostage taking.

    Sounds like if the pubbies would have taken yes for an answer and grover norquist weren't running their party, it wouldn't have happened.

    Good on the administration for pushing back at S&P - but we'll see what the markets think about the credit black eye. Do actual investors think the U.S. is less safe just cuz S&P says it's less safe? Stay tuned.
     
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From the press release...

     
  4. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just saw Bachmann stumping on how the S&P downgrade was all about Obama's "failed economic policies." Evidently she didn't read the S&P release either... sort of like believing that the founding fathers were fighting against slavery and the Revolution began in New Hampshire...
     
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obama is the boss.

    More Dead Troops And The Anti War Crowd Is Silent (bush haters)

    News from The Associated Press
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    The White House spin doctors can come and throw treats to the willing media lap dogs and the true believers.

    But no amount of spin can change the fact that it's the first downgrade in over 100 years and it's on Obama's watch. It is what it is.

    I wonder if he now regrets killing a probable deal with the Speaker by coming in and demanding $400 in new taxes at the last moment.
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with the first part of what you say, but I also think the fact is that what you are delivering is the message the Republicans wanted all along.

    The reality is that the Republicans engaged in sabotage to increase their chances in 2012. They delayed and opted to solve nothing, rather than give the economy a boost and Obama the credit. Whether or not their cynicism will pay off depends on the Obama campaign's response and the state of the economy as the election approaches.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, the liberals are not silent at all. In fact they are quite vocal and Obama's approval has dropped significantly among liberals. They are certainly vastly more vocal than the Bush crowd was when he was creating record deficits and making a mess of the economy. There are liberals like me who at this point will not contribute to the Obama campaign if the Republicans choose a bland Republican like Romney.
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Excerpts from the press release:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/08/05/sp-downgrades-u-s-debt-rating-press-release/
    (Excerpts selected by ThinkProgress.Org, but the above link is to the S&P press release.)

    [...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

    [...]It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.

    [...]The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

    [...]Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  10. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One interesting feature is that they're doing to the U.S. -- because of our recent hostage-taking -- what they've been doing to "less stable" nations forever. That is, they're judging how our political issues interact with our economic outlook.

    Why do you think China doesn't have the AAA rating? They're typically an "A" behind across the three credit services. It's not because they're in debt, it's because their political system is inherently less stable, because there is always the possibility that they'll lurch back away from markets, and because of the extent of their currency manipulation.

    They're grading our political childishness on a par with totalitarian regimes that can turn heavy-handed at any moment, and on a par with tinpot dictatorships that can be overthrown. In other words, you can't rely on the U.S. to solve its problems, because you have idiots taking hostages and threatening not to pay the bills for theatrical purposes.

    Come on people. Demanding a constitutional amendment as part of a housekeeping task? That ain't gonna fly.

    They're also disappointed that there were no tax increases... in other words, that we're not mature enough to understand that if you run up your bills that you pay those bills. And the bills have been run up already.

    The pubbie Rx is prospectively idiotic as well. Ideas like "shut down the department of this the department of that and the bureau of this that and the other," without thinking through the consequences, is not fiscal policy. It's stump speeches by other means.

    Previously, we had the type of mature democracy that could responsibly manage our debt by applying sound fiscal principles. Even the toxic prescriptions of the right, based on fringe economic "ideas", at least had long fuses on them, enough room to realize (over and over again,) just how wrong they are.

    Since '10, we've had a minority of a party that took control of one house of Congress stomping their feet and demanding that Grover Norquist be placated.

    S&P sees that people... well right now, Moody's and Fitch aren't following suit. Again, we'll see what the markets say Monday.

    pFnV
     
  11. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Patters, I don't know how you figured that. I know that's the talking points from the left wing, but it does not add up.

    OK, the congress submitted 3 plans that we know of. Obama submitted none. All he did was whine and point fingers. Every single thing he did was politics.

    If you want "compromise" one side submits a plan, then the other side submits a plan, then you negotiate. It's hard to negotiate when no plan is submitted by the other side.

    I take no joy in any of this and both parties could have done a better job. the final debt ceiling deal was smoke and mirrors. If these people don't get really serious about this the economy will tank more.

    This is an opportunity if they can just agree on the following:
    1. Hold the rate of growth of the federal gov to 1 or 2%. This will mean cutting programs but there are many that don't work. This may even mean repeal of Obamacare and the huge price tag that we cannot afford.
    2. Scrap the present tax code and get rid of loopholes that only CPA's can figure out. Put in a flat tax and stop this stupid class warfare. A small national sales tax would be added.

    it's not that hard if they can put the interest of the people of the country ahead of their own political interest.
     
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Back in the good old days of real "War Protests"

    Bush war protesters - Yahoo! Search Results
     
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obama submitted a plan in February, and then endorsed the bipartisan Gang of Six plan. That was a reasonable starting point for negotiations involving both revenue increases and budget cuts. Initially, Boehner did try to negotiate, but the Tea Party refused to budge from the idea of cuts without revenues. That was the obstacle, and remained the obstacle throughout. We'll see the exact same scenario play out in November.
     
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Obama 'plan' did noting to reduce spending and reform entitlements, that's why it was rejected by a 97-0 vote.

    The Senate hasn't passed a budget for 2010 or 2011 FY, they still haven't starting the process of passing a FY 2012 budget.

    2 possibilites, IMO

    1 This is political stunt, due to Dodd/Frank the credit ratings agencies are under the control of the Bankng committees. If a political party wanted to use the credit rating as a political weapon, putting pressure on a CR agency would be a powerful tool.

    2 IT became clear that no serious attempt was being to reform our unsustainable entitlement programs, taxes and everything else doesn't matter if the entitlements had been dealt with.

    If Obama had embraced the Ryan plan there would have been no downgrade, as it is we are currently committed to a 9T increase in our debt over the next 10 years.
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the House had embraced they Obama plan, there would have been no downgrade.

    It's a political stunt because the Republican House would not accept the Gang of Six proposal as a starting point, which did attempt to address our entitlement programs. (And by the way, I think the Gang of Six's proposal is terrible.) The fact is the Tea Party even angered several Republican Senators with their flat-out objection to new tax revenues.

    Also, I don't see how the credit rating drop benefits Obama.
     
  16. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    I was ready to click

    ... and then I saw Romney at the end ... and sorry ... that ruined it for me. :bricks:

    Please ... no Romney as POTUS.
     
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    Actually Obama endorsed the gang of six because he knew it would die in the Senate ... it had no chance in the Senate and he knew it.
     
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Romney blows whichever way the wind blows. If he's president, and people clamor for more Medicare, he'll support more Medicare; if the people clamor for more abortion rights, he'll support abortion rights. He's a spineless, immoral person, and if he was the nominee, I'd rather focus my donations on Congresspeople and Senators than on President.
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It would have passed the Senate, but not the House. It was a sincere effort by a combination of conservatives, moderates, and liberals to reach an agreement on deficit reduction.
     
  20. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm fine with our country being less predictable... I somehow read that as our leaders cant be corrupted and therefore... We punish. Like it or not, I love the T party shaking up the status quo.

    we are the largest economy by far in the world... F what anyone else says, go invest in dubai...
     

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